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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,151 Likes: 609
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,151 Likes: 609 |
Ok Model 12 experts, I've got another gun to ask you about. Did a post-Christmas trip to the "old country" (ie. Pennsylvania) to visit family and do a little Steelhead fishing in Erie, Pa. While killing some time in-between fishing and hunting adventures (which were somewhat limited by 20-plus inches of accumulated snow) I found an early Model 12 in 20 gauge in a small, backwoods gunshop that I later dated to 1914. Gun is in very good shape, other than someone putting a poorly-fitting pad on it to make it a bit longer. Barrel length is only 25-inches, but it doesn't look to be altered in any way. As best as I can determine, it has 2 1/2 inch chambers, but it chambers, fires, and ejects 2 3/4 inch shells just fine. I'm guessing that it has been used with 2 3/4-inch shells most of it's life.
My questions are this: Are 25-inch barrels original in early 20 gauge guns? What was the stock length of pull for this gun when it was original? And finally, what sort of risk is there in using 2 3/4 inch shells in this thing ? I have lots of English 2 1/2s I can use (left from an old hammer gun I once owned) but I'm wondering what my options are here? This should make another nice grouse gun, and for not alot of money.
Last edited by Lloyd3; 01/04/13 10:05 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 775
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 775 |
All of the early 20 ga .model 1912's had 25" barrels, and they all had 2 1/2" chambers. I have one of the early ones, and I lengthened the chamber to 2 3/4" with no other changes and it works fine. I don't know the original stock length, but it seems a bit shorter than later guns. mine is the only one that I have ever managed to kill 5 wild quail on the covey rise with.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,097 Likes: 492
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,097 Likes: 492 |
mine is the only one that I have ever managed to kill 5 wild quail on the covey rise with. I hope a suitable monument was erected on the site.  I had a similar M12, choked no choke, factory Cyl. Gil
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 839
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 839 |
Love it when y'all talk pump guns... makes me crave snuff, camo 'n Lite beer.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,161 Likes: 208
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,161 Likes: 208 |
Lloyd, short chambered 20 gauge Model 12s generally work well with 2 3/4" shells. I don't believe there is much of a safety issue either. Short chambered Model 12s in 16 gauge do not work so well and usually have to be modified to function with 2 3/4" shells. The original stock length was about 13 5/8".
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
Ok Model 12 experts, I've got another gun to ask you about. Did a post-Christmas trip to the "old country" (ie. Pennsylvania) to visit family and do a little Steelhead fishing in Erie, Pa. While killing some time in-between fishing and hunting adventures (wich were somewhat limited by 20-plus inches of accumulated snow) I found an early Model 12 in 20 gauge in a small, backwoods gunshop that I later dated to 1914. Gun is in very good shape, other than someone putting a poorly-fitting pad on it to make it a bit longer. Barrel length is only 25-inches, but it doesn't look to be altered in any way. As best as I can determine, it has 2 1/2 inch chambers but it chambers,fires, and ejects 2 3/4 inch shells just fine. I'm guessing that it has been used with 2 3/4-inch shells most of it's life.
My questions are this: Are 25-inch barrels original in early 20 gauge guns? What was the stock length of pull for this gun when it was original? And finally, what sort of risk is there in using 2 3/4 inch shells in this thing ? I have lots of English 2 1/2s I can use (left from an old hammer gun I once owned) but I'm wondering what my options are here? This should make another nice grouse gun, and for not alot of money. 25 inch Full choke barrels were std. Tghe customer could also specify Mod. or Cyl. (Imp. Cyl. and Imp. Mod. chokes came later on)--the first 3 years of production (1912 to 1915 aprox.) there was just stippling on the top of the receivers, later WRA added the milled groove with the rear "notch"--it will be marked Model 1912- in 1919 WRA dropped the 19 from the barrel roll stamp, and it was the Model 12- nickle steel--I have a 16 ga. Tournament grade 26" solid rib Mod choke Model 12 made in 1922- nickle steel- that Model 12 and also a 16 gauge M21 skeet gun made in 1938 that belongs to a good friend are the only two shotguns that I have ever taken 4 ruffed grouse with 6 shells for a full day's hunting, back here in MI in the mid-1970's-- I used the older Peters purple 2 & 9/16" paper shells in No. 8 shot both events- could not even come close to that today, even if I wanted to.
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,151 Likes: 609
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,151 Likes: 609 |
You folks are wonderful, thank you! I think this gun now measures 14-inches with the pad, so it may not have been cut. Any suggestions as to what it had originally? Like maybe that black Winchester plate my 1919 has? This gun has had far-better care than my 1919 16-bore and looks little used. I think it is marked full choke. The only other modification I noticed was a safety button that was much larger than what I expected. I have been told it that it is likely a Marble's aftermarket, but it works perfectly. FWIW, I bought the gun because it was so cheap ($200) and also because I could just walk out the door with it. Here in Colorado, our waiting list to get a background check done is over 10-days now. So much for "instant". Our 2nd Amendment rights are in dire shape here, whith no good news forthcoming it seems.
Last edited by Lloyd3; 01/04/13 10:02 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,437 Likes: 34
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,437 Likes: 34 |
I found an early Model 12 in 20 gauge in a small, backwoods gunshop that I later dated to 1914. I think this gun now measures 14-inches with the pad, so it may not have been cut. Any suggestions as to what it had originally? Like maybe that black Winchester plate my 1919 has? If it's a 1914 gun, it's probably a Model of 1912. I have a 1914 Mod 1912 20ga/25"/Full/Solid Rib and it came with a black plastic Winchester butt plate. That stock is packed away now because I refitted the gun with later wood to make it more shootable (longer LOP), but I think you can find pics of the correct plate on the Galazan site in their repro butt plate section.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 415
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 415 |
There's nothing quite like a Model 12! Close- but no cigar.
Anything Worth Doing is Worth Overdoing
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