doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Folding shotguns resist looseness?

I shoot 100s of rounds through my O/U and SXS guns, and only a few rounds through the single barrel folders. Wonder if this might be a factor?

Can many say a folder has been shot 1000 rounds?

Mike

Well in none of the guns pictured is the distance between the pivot point and the lockup 3 times greater than that of an ordinary break open single (Or Double). Have no idea where that theory came from but think we can pretty well scrap it. Several old American "Farmers" singles had removable hinge pins which fit through a complete round hole in the bbl lug rather than in a Hook. I have my Dad's old 16ga Hopkins & Allen which was like this. On most of these the pin threaded into the opposite side of the frame & was equipped with a folding handle which fit in a recess on the handle side for removing. Don't know they were any more noted for staying tight than the hook system.
I highly suspect that far more break open guns have become loose from being opened & closed countless times in a gritty, grimmy unlubricated condition than have ever been "Shot Loose".
I have several 100+ year old guns which are still tight & do not appear to have spent all their life as a closet Queen.

Shotgunlover - thу article was in a late 1980s or early 1990s Russian gun/hunting magazine and, if I remember correctly, was by a person who was trying to get the Tula Arsenal to build a folding gun of his design.

Humpty Dumpty,

He obviously did not succeed. However his view about the barrel atachment to the receiver via a through pin is interesting.

A friend dealer has a large stock of pre WWII shotguns, about 400 in total. Looking through them I realised that the folders seemed to be holding together surprisingly well considering their condition and obvious use. Additionally, most of them are not quality jobs, just average Spanish and Belgian folders with a smattering of mostly converted Rook rifles.

I had to go back and review all the engineering assumptions about the behavior of actions and the stresses involved on firing. It looks like most authorities have skipped over the Poisson effect in thick tubes. The chamber area of a shotgun is technically a thick walled cylinder, so on firing there is radial stress and axial contraction. Logically contraction is followed by expansion to normal dimensions in the recovery phase.

I suspect, and this is pure theory, that the rapid (milliseconds)expansion-recovery of the chamber section is responsible for shotguns coming loose. THe through pin of folders seems to prevent this result. Again, this is an unproven personal theory.

Now, that's what I call a hollowed out stock!

I have a 1950 Beretta 16 folder that according to the patina has seen a lot of use and is tight. I also have the Companion clone of the Beretta that Ted has.

I might be wrong, but, I'm pretty sure the Companions were made by Beretta. That Beretta trap specific folder is the spittin' image of a Companion.

Best,
Ted

The reason folding single-shots don't shoot loose is that they don't get shot very often. I have one of the Beretta 20ga folding guns and NEVER shoot it. Just can't find any use for it. I thought when I bought it, since it was so light I'd throw it over my shoulder whenever I went out without hunting being the purpose. Mine's still tight so I'm thinking previous owners never shot it either. JMHO of course...Geo

Geo,
The trap specific version of the Companion was sold alongside a much more expensive non folding Beretta trap gun, in the 1970s. I've seen and handled a few examples of each, and, I can assure you, the Companions in trap configuration got the hell shot out of them.
They showed no sign of being loose.
My Companion has a very specific purpose in life. I use it for snowshoe grouse hunting. The longish barrel makes it a pretty effective balance beam, and by the time I get it into firing position after a grouse has left a snow cave from between the tips of my snowshoes, I'm really happy I had a five pounds and change single shot along for the walk.
Did I mention the grouse is usually long gone at that point?
I figure if you aren't going to shoot a gun, have the lightest one in the safe with you.


Best,
Ted