doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com I found a model 12 and...

I'm sorry, I should have been more descriptive. The magazine stop isn't working in that it seems to be stuck in the detent groove, allowing the shells in the magazine to all squirt out while being loaded. If one is careful, it can still be loaded, and functions fine after that, but loading can be tricky.

Diss-assemble the magazine tube- remove the stop leaf spring and the hanger brackets, and of course the lock pin and the two set screws and the end cap-- remove the follower the metal cup) and the coil spring, clean thoroughly and check the tube ID for burrs or dents that might impede the tension of the coil spring against the follower- also check the threads of the magazine extension and also the threads of the tube- for dents, burrs, dings- and make sure when you re-assemble the gu you have the alignment arrows properly oriented-

The cartridge cut-off sits in the left side of the rec'vr wall. It pivots up and down as the action is worked. It should pivot down and block the shell in the mag in back of the one that is being pushed onto the carrier.
When the action is closed shut, the cut-off pivots upwards and allows that shell that it had blocked to then jump back and into position against the small lug on the underside of the bolt,,ready to be loaded next.

If it's not blocking the shells in the magazine,,it may be worn at the back end of it and not moving/pivoting the correct distance anymore.
It may be worn on the front edge that actually contacts the shell (rim) to block and hold it in the magazine.
It may even be bent from a well intentioned attempt at improving function.

The part is under no spring tension at all.
You can remove it easily by removing the trigger guard assembly from the recv'r.
Take the small screw out from the rear 'tang' of the guard and pull the entire guard assembly complete with carrier out of the gun.
The cut-off can then be simply taken out of the receiver. It'll just drop out of the left wall of the recv'r.
Clean the recess it sits in. Check the part over for wear. It may even be bent a little. People do funny things to guns sometimes to 'improve' them.

***If you take the carrier itself off of the trigger guard assembly for any reason,,the large flat head pivot screw is a LEFT handed thread.

Thanks for that Run with the Fox, I have just ordered both books and thank you Samuel, your point 3 is why I thought my old Mike Macintoshs� dads model 12 was faulty, it isn�t, best, Mike

Knowledgeable folks here, thank you!

I've taken my own advise and pulled the stock and trigger group and have the trigger group and the receiver soaking in some (gasp!) gasoline. I had hit them with some carb cleaner but the grime is too hardened with age. Fear not, the old coffee can of gas is outdoors and it's 39 degrees here, so vapors aren't a big problem this morning. It looks as though Kutter is right, the cartridge cut-off may have been slightly bent by some nitwit, but I'm going to give everything a good scrubbing first and see how everything fits together before any modifications are made.

I've got something like $190 in this old corn-shucker, so making it fit me wasn't a hesitation. It now has a LOP of 14 1/2 inches and a drop of only 2 1/2 (1 1/2 at the comb). It also now sports a straight stock. I've paid big bucks for fine English shotguns, but this one can do the job for almost pocket change. The "Perfect Repeater" indeed!

One reason for the incredible durability of the "Perfect Repeater" is the fact that all the receiver components (except springs and machine screws) were NOT cheap stamped steel- but forged from 4140 nickel chrome moly steel and machined to gauge- very hard to "bend or warp" a cartridge cut-off-, but as the front curved "lip" is the thinnest of the entire part, possible- another cause might be- use of slugs or older Military brass cased buckshot loads--my suggestion- if you have a friend who has a 12 gauge M12 in good order, ask if you can remove the cartridge guide from his M12 and compare to to the one from your M12 that you feel is suspect--also, excess crud in the set hole milled inot the receiver for the pivot point for that part may force it slightly out of alignment, but that is a real "iffy" Use Kroil and paint thinner 50-50 and not straight gasoline- cuts the crud quicker- and if you can't find a copy of the great Dave Petzal article SC May 1985 on the "Perfect Repeater" send me an e-mail on the PMS thingy here, and I will make you a copy of mine and snail mail it back, after the Holidays. Welcome to the M12 legion of pumpgunners- and recall, as I do whenever I uncase any of the 7 I own (mfg. from 1921 through 1949 era)the words of outdoor wrtiet Charles Waterman: "Never bet your money against the man who shoots a well-worn pumpgun"!!

Lloyd, The more I reread this the more convinced I am there is nothing wrong at all. When loading a 12 or 42 with action closed the cutoff does not engage any shell rims. Only the closed shellplate/bolt projection keeps them in the mag tube. This is normal. So, yes, all the rounds can spit out if you depress the shellplate (or are a bit ham-handed while loading - like me).

The purpose of the cutoff is to stop shell #3 (#1 is in chamber, #2's rim is being held by the bolt projection and shellplate) from interfering with the shell (#2) about to be fed. Thus, the cutoff engages only when the action is being cycled. Competitive skeet shooters sometimes used to remove the cutoff, as they are/were only allowed to have 2 shells in the gun. In that situation the cutoff is not needed.

Your last sentence kinda tells us the gun is operating as it should. I have had real cutoff problems - on cycling the gun it would dump shells on the ground. Doesn't sound like this is what's happening to you.

Sam

I grew up using a Model 97, but this is my first 1912. What I was drawn to was the incredibly light weight (for a pumpgun!)and geometry of this nickel-steel 16 bore. I've still got a soft spot for English doubles, but this little project was loads of fun and for almost no money. I opened the choke on the 26-inch tube to light modified and had the stock altered to my dimensions and was ready to go.

BTW- you are right about the toughness of the internal parts on these guns. My cutt-off wasn't bent at all or even worn, but things were a bit grimy and neglected. A good cleaning and a close study of how things really worked and I realized that everything was in order after all. As has been mentioned earlier here, Model 12s work a bit differently than all the other pump guns in that they stage the shell somewhat out of the magazine tube for the next shot.

I got this gun from the bargain rack because it wasn't pretty (from long neglect and poor storage) and it shot 2 9/16 shells. But cleaned up and loaded with RST 2 1/2s it was very popular at grouse camp this Fall. When you can actually use that 3rd shot (on doves, quail, etc.) this a great way to add it.

Mr. Hoggson: I must have been typing when you answered. Thank you for your excellent insight into these neat old guns. When I was just a boy, Model 12s were the shotgun of choice most everywhere I found myself shooting with my father. As the years have rolled on, they seem to have fallen out of favor with a broad spectrum of shooters, largely replaced by automatics and stackbarrels. The mandate of non-toxic shot had something to do with that, but also the typical American tendency to be attracted to the newer, flashier offerings of the gunmakers is just as much to blame. Rediscovering them has been a lot of fun.