doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com DM Lefever Optimus Grade 16ga

Mark, he supposedly did hire one of the best appraisers out there.
Not all, but I believe the big auction houses like this one, it is their job to do so.

David,

I agree that they should verify and be responsible for what they advertise but as I stated, if would be foolish to assume they can be experts for every valuable gun. At best they can research what is written in books. We both know that books can list inaccurate information.

Mark

Since the engraver simply copied Daryl's Optimus, which said "not connected with"
on the floor plate. And that gun is a early gun in the 11xx range. Thus the disclaimer. The mistake was assigning a late serial number which by that time frame stopped
stating that. We should wait and read the final Catalog's description from Julia's

"It would be foolish to assume that every auction service employs subject matter experts for every make of gun and period of their manufacture."


Come now. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If an auction service cannot employ an expert, that's fine. But then they lose their right to claim the gun is the real deal. They don't get to say it's the cream of the crop then hide behind "we aren't experts" when it turns out the gun is a phony.

Greg,

I agree with you 100%! That is why I do not buy from the big auction services without an inspection by someone representing my interests.

Mark

Faked or upgraded or even real that is a superb looking gun which is one more that I will never own or even shoot. I wish our fore fathers bought ten times more Lefevers than they did so there would be more left for us to own.

Remarkable gun! Assuming it is an upgrade it is amazing what quality work is available out there in todays world. I think it is beautiful. What grade could it have begun life as?

Mark, My point on bringing up the 2010 auction was that the auction house was notified by several folks who can represent themselves as highly knowlegable about Lefevers that this gun had been cosmetically altered and upgraded.

They stated that they were only guarenteeing that the gun was real. That was not in dispute. I'm sure they employ lawyers to assure that the word of the law is adhered to. However, the ethics of misrepresenting the gun, while maybe legal because we have no records to absolutely prove anything, leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

I agree with Paul, lets see how this plays out. Its just that I feel bad when a fellow brings in a high grade gun to show us at one of the meets or shows with pride in his eyes and a much lighter wallet and we recognize it as a fake.

Dr. Bob,

I understand completely. I am not going to say anything bad about the big auction services except that potential buyers of high dollar guns should have experts on the particular gun of interest verify its originality and condition. The auctioneers could be wrong!

Mark

Looks like they had a hard time keeping the guns in inventory marked with their current name as this struggling company moved around and continually reorganized.

The company name was D.M. Lefever & Sons, Syracuse, NY until late 1902, when it became D.M. Lefever, Sons & Co., Syracuse, NY. By October 1904, their ads are D.M. Lefever, Sons & Co., Defiance, Ohio, which continues into June 1905. By July 1905, their ads are D.M. Lefever Arms Co., Defiance, Ohio, and by September 1905, the ads are D.M. Lefever Co. Bowling Green, Ohio. So, the name D.M. Lefever Arms Co. as found on the barrels of this gun was only used in their advertising in July and August 1905. The name D.M. Lefever, Sons & Co. on the sides of the receiver appears on their magazine advertising from December 1902 in Syracuse through June 1905 in Defiance.