doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Machine-made verses handmade guns.

American guns, for all of the romance we tend to associate with them, were and are almost entirely made in a batch process. The guns from our Golden Era (1890s thru the 1930s)were mass-produced in a process that had enough human interaction to at least ensure some art and balance went into the final product. Post WW-II guns were generally shown even less interaction with skilled workers and the final product reflects that fact. There are exceptions, but most were fairly pedestrian. English guns have a different history. More later.

Lloyd,
Old topic around here. There isn't a gun around that didn't have machines involved in it's manufacturing process.

When someone says 'it's a hand-made gun' they either have no idea or are just using a vernacular for a gun that is hand fitted and finished on a lot of the surfaces.

For example:
How do you make a barrel without a lathe?
How do you drill a hole without a drillpress or mill (and yes, I've seen and used handpowered drill presses. They are still machines regardless of how they are powered)?
How do you make a screw (pin, to some of you) without a lathe?

Machines came before guns. Machines allowed for the making of guns. Without machines, guns would not exist. The "all hand-made gun" is a myth. At least any gun that we'd want to use for sporting purpose.

I know what you are getting at in your post but somewhere I have a picture of a Purdey gunmaker (late 19th or early 20th century) drilling the striker holes in the face of a Purdey action using a breast drill. IMO that is getting very close to qualifing as "hand made".

On the other hand, Holland (since Henry) has been making a point of using the most advanced technology available. Not all hands are created equal, and not all machines too. An obvious case for "buy the gun, not the mfg method" IMO.

How did the barrels get bored? How were they honed? How did they make the strikers and the plugs that screw into the breachface?

Any well fitting thread in a gun was made with a tap that was made on a lathe. Likewise, the screw that goes in the threaded hole is made on a lathe. Any axles are made on a lathe (anything that holds the work and turns is a form of a lathe)

Some definitions I plucked from Websters:

A machine may be further defined as a device consisting of two or more parts that transmit or modify force and motion in order to do work. The five simple machines are the lever, the wedge, the wheel and axle, the pulley, and the screw; all complex machines are combinations of these basic devices.

e (1) : an assemblage of parts that transmit forces, motion, and energy one to another in a predetermined manner (2) : an instrument (as a lever) designed to transmit or modify the application of power, force, or motion

"English guns have a different history". Regarding the use of machines? Hmmmm. Christopher G. Bonehill "Belmont Interchangeable". BSA. Midland. W&C Scott. H&H. Purdey. Greener. All of them used machines in the manufacture of their guns, all of them. The myth that some poor sap sat at a bench with 75 pound chunks of steel and hammered and filed it down into parts to assemble a gun is ridiculous. It simply did not happen like that.

Mr. Chuck is right. Unfortunately Chuck, it doesn't matter. People are going to believe what they want regardless of what's real and what's a myth.

Read what WW Greener had to say about machine made guns in "the gun and its development" to get a period perspective on it.

I would alter the description to hand built rather than hand made .The deciding factor come in the degree of and quality of machining . A modern Beretta or Browning has parts that are so well and accurately made that they can be assembled with only the smallest of adjustments to the regulation of ejectors for example . Another post regarding Webley guns are a good example of being hand built ,all the parts were machined but with sufficient material left to allow parts to be individual filed up and fitted ,I can not remember how many man hours were involved but it would have been around 50 for a 700 not counting machining time . The gun trade has always used machinery or mechanical devices in some form or another , . It is a fact that many production methods and tooling developed from gun trade practices ,guns especially military weapons being one of the first mass produced pieces of mechanical apparatus .

Well, a crude form of rifleing machine was used to rifle the hand forged barrels (as well as something for boring) on German Jaegers as well as Pennsylvania & Kentucky rifles yet most people would consider these to be "hand made" rifles so the term "hand made" is difficult to define.

The point is that a lot of the work on "most" high quality English guns until recently was done with hand tools & there is lots of documentation around to support this so if you don't beleive what I'm writing, please do a little reading on the subject.

Yes, some machines were involved but it is amazing to me how much work was done with files, chisels, hand drills, scrapers & simple plate type thread cutting dies for screws up through the 1960 period.

To me, the end result is what matters & I don't care how much hand work is involved as long as the quality of worknanship is there as well as good design & materials.

A good entirely machine made guns is for sure better than a poor quality gun with lots of hand work but you can't deny the hand work & skills that went into the making of high quality English guns.