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So what's the scoop on some 12's having more screws than others? Older/newer? OK/better? Are they all 3" chambers?

inquiring minds, etc

have a day

Dr.WtS

I have four BSS frames and five sets of barrels in 12 and 20, never noticed any difference in number of screws but didn't count them. All my barrels are 3" chambers. The early guns had silver triggers (SNST) and the newer guns had gold triggers (SST). As I recall, some were assembled in Korea with Japanese parts, but I don't remember the sequence. Have not noticed any difference in quality based on country of assembly. Larry Brown had a good article in Shooting Sportsman a few years ago that covered the Miroku doubles, including the BSS.

Also have a Miroku 500 in 20 gauge and a Daly 500 in 12 ga (with two barrels) and all those barrels are 2-3/4" chambers.

On gunbroker right now there is one w/ two screws in the bottom of the action and three screws on the sides. The other guns have one on the bottom and two on the side.

I'd put the links but I'm too lazy to look them up. But I'm old so it's my call on that.

Anyone happen to know what SS issue it was that Mr. Brown has his article?

TIA

have a day

Dr.WtS

The Grade 2 BSSs were sidelocks and cost significantly more.
The first generation BSSs has non-selective silver colored triggers. The later models had selective gold colored triggers. Both were available in Sporter or pistol grip configurations.
Guns like my BSS Sporter 20, selective trigger, 28" barrels, 95%+, were going for over $2,000 before the economy tanked. Somewhat lower now, and 12s also go for a bit less.
They did make Sporter 12 gauges with 30" barrels, but not too many. I looked and looked for one, and after I gave up of course two popped up.
Bob was right, don't know where my brain was on the pricing. BUT, before I jumped at "custon fitted" barrels and thinwall chokes I would have to know who did everything. I am quite familiar with Briley and am good with them, but I am not familiar with the gunsmith who supposedly did the work. I'd like to see the receipts.
It didn't sell I see. I am tempted myself, but I am already battling the urge to jump on a Dickinson 20.

Browning made a Grade 2 version of the BSS boxlock, and maybe higher too, so it's not accurate to say without qualification that BSS Grade 2s are sidelocks. I'm not familiar enough with the BSS Sidelock to know if they made multiple grades of it.

My 20 ga. Sporter has two screws on both the bottom and sides of the frame. The selective trigger is silver, barrels are marked "Assembled in Korea from Japanese components. The 12 ga. has just one screw on both bottom and sides, the selective trigger is gold, barrels are marked "Made in Japan". So color of trigger doesn't necessarily identify selective vs. non-selective. I don't know why the screw differences.

When I bought my 12 ga. Sporter new in 1985, they were available only in 26" and 28" barrels.

Art Isaacson is widely known for excellent work, and for expertise with Brownings.

Jay

Grade II BSS's were definately not Sidelocks.
Grade II's were tarted up Boxlocks with cartoonish engraving but much nicer wood.

Sidelocks were Sidelocks
Here is an outstanding article, read all about it!
http://doublegunshop.com/james_flynn_bss_sidelock_article_050104.htm

Here is my 20 gauge BSS Sidelock, far left.
I adjusted the downpitch and had Les Pittman fit a beautiful leather covered pad(used the Browning Sporter pad as a base).


Virginian,
Browning did not make any 12 gauge BSS Sporters with 30" barrels and Art Isaacson didn't alledgedly do my barrels, he in fact did my barrels.http://artsgunshop.com/

+1


Stan, you are the man,
I withdrew my offer to sell. A guy would be crazy to loose such a gun!
Thanks,
Bob

Can't say I blame you, Bob.

SRH

I stand corrected on the Grade 2 versus sidelocks. I think back then Browning had Grade 2s in most models available that were dressed up versions of the Grade 1s.
I did not mean to imply that Mr. Isaacson was not a great gunsmith, just that I am not familiar with him. In fact I am not familiar with many at all, because while I love SxSs, I have had almost nothing besides barrel work done ever, and most of my gunsmithing time has been with repeaters. I don't know that I would subtrtact $500 value for Briley chokes.
The fact that they made any selective trigger models with silver triggers is big news to me. Never saw or heard that before, ever.
I think I will stick by what I said on Sporters with 30" barrels, although I am going strictly on memory. I was selling guns back then, and I called Browning quite a few times trying to find one of those, and trying to talk them in to making a scaled 28 gauge. They told me they had a production schedule with the manufacturer and they couldn't break into that for a standard gun, and that 30" wasn't popular in the Sporter, and that they were thinking about a 28. I know I have seen several over the years and I don't remember any of those being referred to as having fitted barrels. As soon as they announced the end of SxS production I had to scramble to find a new but also discontinued Winchester 23 in 28 gauge - not that easy in the pre-internet days.
I don't blame you for not selling any of those, that is a fantastic looking set of guns. I really like the way you had the buttpads done too.
I do not mean to imply in any shape or form that I am an expert, as I know I am not. I'm just an old guy who likes SxSs.

A 28 gauge BSS would be the cats' pajamas!

Re Buttpads.
I used the Browning 525 "Sporter" pad on all 3 albeit leather covered the Sidelock.
Only 5/8" thick and although stiff, they suck right up to the curved cut of the BSS stock.

My article on Miroku side by sides was in the Sept/Oct 02 issue. But I'm afraid I can't shed any light on the number of screws.

The above posts straighten out the confusion between Grade II's and the Sidelock. Grade II's, when you can find them, are selling for ridiculous prices, mostly based on the fact that there aren't many out there. Maybe even fewer than Sidelocks. I recall some specially engraved Grade II's that were different from the standard ones, but I'm very hazy on those. As for the Sidelocks, there was only one grade. However, a few were game-scene engraved, whereas the majority were scroll. I can't recall ever having seen one with game scene engraving.

Back when Browning brought out the Cynergy, I was one of a group of writers invited to field test the gun on clays and pheasants at a lodge in South Dakota. Several of us suggested to Browning that bringing back the BSS might be a good idea. But it seems that all the experienced sxs makers at Miroku had retired and they probably would have had to retool to make the guns, which had then been out of production for well over a decade. Now, with the increasing prices for Spanish guns--won't be long before new AyA 4/53's top $4,000, I'd guess--it might once again be a worthwhile endeavor for Browning/Miroku. I'd certainly like to see the return of the BSS, with a double trigger version and in 28ga as well as 12 and 20. There certainly was a time when Miroku made sxs that looked every bit as much like British doubles as do the guns coming out of Spain.

Virginian, if the Dickinson had a decent trigger, I'd second your urge to jump on it. But I'd urge you to try one out with snap caps before you take the plunge.