doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Help identify a Charles Daly Damascus10 gauge.

This is great. It's good to have some info to tell my Father-in-law. It belonged to his father and he used it for goose hunting back in the day but didn't remember much about it before he passed. He was 93. Knowing the maker was my goal. It's too bad there isn't more info on em. Here is another photo I left out. Could a piece be missing from the forend?

I have a similiar Daily with Lindner stamping on the barrels. S/N 3262. The APN is 1220. Top rib engraved Charles Daily Extra Fine Damascus Diamond Quality. Dolls head rib extension and cocking indicators. No proof marks, no country of origin. Looks like Herringbone Damsacus barrels. All screws still timed. Blued frame. Straight back frame.
When I bought this gun, I cooresponded with the late John Mann, who figured the manufacturing date as between 1880-1890 due to lack of proof marks. Further coorespondance with Ken Georgi comfirmed the estimated date.
This is an extremely beautiful but heavy 12ga built with a short stock leading me to assume it was a water fowling gun.
Hope something here will help the OP and those who have thus far responded.
PS: I thought Lindner used Saur frames and that even GEORGE Lindner used a barrel stamp to identify. I'll dig back int John Mann's DGJ articles when I can- busy right now.

Unkleb,

The forend tip of your Daly is missing its horn insert. Dalys of this period were normally equipped with a decorative insert made of horn. Later guns featured black ebony inserts. The forend insert was a pretty standard feature of all the hammerless Prussian Dalys.

Raimey,

I have also wondered about the mechanics of executing the APUN requirement, but I don't have much insight into how it was actually done. WR obviously wanted folks to use their A&D patent to reap the financial benefits, and the gun makers were eager to use the new design. That said, it would have been cost prohibitive to set-up a station in every country. For pure volume, Leige would seem like a logical starting place to set up a station on the continent, but what about makers outside Belgium? How could a German gun maker legally make use of the patent? And was it illegal to use if it wasn't separately patented in Germany? These are great questions but I don't have any answers.

This situation was not confined to gun makers though so it would be interesting to see how it was handled in other industries with the same problem. Did a patent really need to be separately registered in every country on the continent to be effective, or was there some type of regional reciprosity?? I would be really curious how this all worked.

Cary,

There is a lot of evidence to suggest Lindner sourced his action forgings from Sauer. I am not aware though of a stamp/marking used by George Lindner. There are some other linkages between these guns and George IMO but unfortunately, a stamp, to my knowledge, is not one of them.

Ken

Ken:
I think most of the time when we look back in time we compress it and things were not as connected real time as we would think them to be. I performed a search independent of this thread,

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=255451&page=2

& I still think WR & AF were very, very chummy, so in my mind all info points to AF as being the location for the A&D satellite stamping station. I would say that AF collected the protection schillings, but that is wild conjecture. I too wonder how chummy AF & Charles Daly might have been and if AF gave Daly a set of stamps for H.A. Lindner to use. Say he prepaid for 1000 units, or made monthly installments, would one not think that he was entitled to a set of stamps?

Will have to look to see if A&D hauling anyone into court outside of Britain. I don't think there to be many German examples that wear the A&D APUN outside of H.A. Lindner. I would say that the patentee sought protection in the countries where the his design was being peddled and drag the retailer into court. He should have deeper pockets than the actual mechanics.

Unkleb,

I believe a stab at the craftsman EW can be made & it may be that Georg Lindner was the one sourcing all the effort and facilitating the shipment to S,D&G. Can you provide an image of the area from the flats to the forend hanger?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Until I get my digital camera back this is the best I can get with a phone camera.

That's well enough for what I wanted to see. The mechanic EW was sourced early on and Ken must have the other early Daly example with the same initials. Below is a thread that you can sort thru the chaff and maybe find some info;

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=193231&page=1

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I believe it to be ground we have covered previously, but it appears Couchman was the fella who drug infringing folks into court:

http://books.google.com/books?id=OIIzAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA58&dq=anson+%26+deeley+patent+infringement&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mLpHUcL7CrPC4AOyyYGgAw&ved=0CEYQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=anson&f=false
copy & paste

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Unkleb:

Can you measure the length of the water table or action for its length?

Kind Regards,


Raimey
rse

Thanks for directing me to the other thread. Great read.

From the breech face to the end of the water table is 2 1/2". With my lack of experience from what points do I measure the action?

unkleb:

Measure from the standing breech to the center of the hinge pin, which should be approx. where the water table has an inlet to mate with the forend iron.

I think Ken to be correct on the estimated production date, say 1877, and it may have been completed or experienced quality control at the old address of 120 Rasen Stra�e before the move was made circa 1877, when the whole lot moved to Schleusinger Stra�e 28, a move that more than likely was instigated by the influx of cash from a deal with Charles Daly(Schoverling, Daly & Gales). Here it would seem that there is a changing of the guard between his father Georg Lindner with Charles Daly to Heinrich A. Lindner and Charles Daly. It is possible that the all familiar Lindner control marks(actually 2) have an origin here. Boy would it not be nice to have a gander at the contract. H.A. Lindner was born in 1848 and he should have attained the rank of master by say 1872/1873. In about 4 shorts years he has a plan and a business modell that is centered around Charles Daly so on April 27th, 1877 he takes the plunge and marries Hedwig Trieble of another family of gunmakers. This relationship just about guarantees component sourcing. After he has been made whole here, he controls his own destiny, hence, his own crossed pistols trademark. This is probably is old hat to most but I just wanted to give a little background info to the situation.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse