doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Age of Midland

I have a Midland Demon hammer gun. 12 ga #8285x. Original nitro proofs at 13/1 and 2 3/4" chambers. 12 over the C but also marked 12/70. I doubt if all that is original proof marks. Steel barrels; I don't consider it an elegant gun so I was surprised to see that Demons were considered among their top grade guns. It is a very usable, light weight and good modern dimensions but hardly anything fancy. When it came in, the seller warned me "It has about every handling mark known to man." He wasn't exagerating, either.

gil, if it has 12/70 that indicates a later re-proof. It should also have a crown over letter 'R' too. Although I have known the proof House miss off the odd mark. The 'Demon' was one of the better hammer guns by Midland. It seems that they could make top end boxlocks and sidelocks but the hammer guns were alway made down to a price. They were good strong rugged workhorse guns but never anything really fancy. Not many hammer guns made after 1900 were unless made by Purdey on special order. The main selling guns by then were hamerless ones with later hammer guns made for the lower price market. Lagopus.....

L Brown'
Whilst you are correct in stating that 12 /C means that the chambers are less than 3 inches this mark must be read in conjunction with max shot load markings, in this example 1 1/8 max; ties into the scale of proof load used by the Proof House applicable to 2 1/2 or 2 5/8 chambered guns.[See the applicable British rules of proof]
A 2 3/4 or 2 7/8 inch chambered gun with the 12/C mark will be stamped 1 I/4 ozs; max for a corresponding maximum breech pressure of 7280 P.S.I.
Safety being the priority, it is vital that proof marks be properly understood if accidents are to be avoided.
Always measure the actual chamber length and bore sizes and compare with the the proof marks and applicable specified proof dimensions. It is also a wise precaution to measure minimum wall thickness of the barrels. .020 inches is considered to be a minimum.This feature is not specified in the rules of proof but indicates the durability and remaining life in the barrels.
Unfortunately many 2 1/2 chambered guns encountered in N.A. have had their chambers extended to 2 3/4 inches rendering the gun," out of proof" and thus a potential safety hazard.
This issues has had much attention in the past on this forum.It is clear that some 2 1/2 chambered guns were at the customers request tested to 2 3/4 pressures and marked 1 1/4 ozs; max.

Good points, Roy. However, my main point remains valid: Chamber length would have been marked on a gun from the 1925-54 period, and in fact the presence or absence of chamber length is the easiest way to date a gun as being either from that period or from 1904-25.

Also, what's your source for maximum breech pressure for guns of that era? And if you're quoting psi figures from the days when pressure was measured with lead crushers, you have to remember that the figure you're giving is what we'd call LUP today, not psi. (Unfortunately for mutual comprehension of pressure readings, the British continued to use lead crusher measurements rather than piezo-electronic until just a few years ago.)

What is the current British proof requirement for maximum pressure?

1370 bar for Superior proof guns (formerly magnum proof); 960 bar for Standard proof. Those are transducer figures and can be converted to psi by multiplying x 14.5. Those are, of course, proof pressures for shotguns, not service pressures for shotshells.

L.Brown
You are correct the chamber length of guns was marked on English guns from 1925-1954.From 1904-1925 the allowable safe pressure established by the Proof House,s is recorded for 2 3/4 chambers at 3 I/4 tons & for 2 1/2 chambers 3 tons.
The English ton is 2240 lbs; hence the pressures I gave in my earlier post. These pressure were developed from lead crusher tests conducted at the proof House[A test that I have witnessed] hence the term LUP is often quoted to denote pressure acceptable.
For further reading See; Gough Thomas,s[G.T. Garwood, Chartered Engineer] second Gun Book, pages 141-144. This describes in detail the British crusher gauge test and confirms the pressures that I quoted. This article was first published in the British magazine, Shooting Times, 28 February 1970.

Chuck, I'll take what you've got over "fancy" any day. The tribe I gun with see fancy as affectation, show, not cool.

Roy, the pressure in tons was not stamped on British guns until 1954. For those guns, per the Birmingham Proof House, service pressures converted to transducer figures were: 8,938 psi for guns with a 3 ton marking (2 1/2"); 9,682 psi for guns with a 3 1/4 ton marking (2 3/4").

Hey guys,interesting stuff, but my question is, how old is this Midland?