doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Look at this Remington Grade 3 on Gunbroker

I am not saying I wouldn't buy the gun, as I do like it's look. Ed, as you say the condition is great, but the reduction of the original length of the barrels is part of that condition. I would buy the gun, but I would buy priced accordingly, based on the shortened barrels.

Anyone Ed bans from bidding on his ware he is doing them a favor.


Now more to the point who here thinks this gun may have been well refinished at some time? Blow up picture 16. The serial number is heavily pitted but it has strong case color over the pits. I seen factory gun with rough water tables but the serial number should be sharp. Every other number is. Notice you are not given a picture of the breech face. Hard to tell if this gun has been used much and refinished or just a closet queen based on the pictures given. 107 years old and the stock shows wear but not the metal. How does that work? And do you cut the barrels, fill in with solder and not think it is a great time to refinish the barrels if they need it?

If it has been redone they were very good. Screws are clean, clocked and not buggered. I know one smith who could have done the job, but he rarely confirms or denies that he has restored a gun unless he has reason to do so. Guess it is his privacy policy like at the doctors.

Buy the gun for what it is, not what someone tells you it is. A nice looking, rare Remington that is in very presentable condition. Not a perfect example of a factory original gun. Deduct 50% for the cut barrels and bid accordingly. Problem is that without chokes the utility is some what limited.

Quote: "Problem is that without chokes the utility is some what limited."

The seller says the muzzles measure .705 which is about improved modified. If it was 28" and cut 2" IMO it would be about .010 or less. There are plenty of guns of that period with factory records showing odd length barrels that were not standard offered lengths.

What are the diameters of the bores?

Here is a picture of My grade 3 Mod 1889 with 30 inch uncut bbls for comparisons

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Interesting that Ed is so dogmatic in his defense of a gun with obviously cut barrels, and the consequent effect on its fair market value. Perhaps that speaks to the quality of many of the guns he has for sale, I don't know. I do know that Ed is the only seller on GB with whom I will never do business. I once made the mistake of asking him a relevant question about an under-described gun he had for sale, and rather than an answer, received a long lecture about what an expert he is on vintage guns and how he would decide what I needed to know before I bid. In reading these posts, I'm glad to see its not just me.

Let's say they had a special order for 26" which would be pretty rare at that time. To keep proper convergence, metal would have to be removed from the inner outside of the chamber area to make the muzzles meet. Maybe the barrel maker deemed it not necessary to remove metal and the chamber end and therefore the muzzles wouldn't meet to keep proper convergence.

I know with Ithacas, muzzles didn't necessarily meet. Ask Walter Snyder. I looked on three big gun sites and there were only about four 1894/1900s with 26" barrels. UNfortunately, none showed the muzzles. 1894/1900s were offered with 26".

With muzzles measurements of .705 and the standard being .729; maybe some were .725, I believe there has to be considerable doubt the barrels were cut.

I emailed the seller and told him the only way to know for sure was to have the bores measured and see where the choke taper begins.

Ed is a hack,a disgrace to the profession.He is all for non and under disclosure to sell to unsuspecting buyers he would hide anything he could from them to make a buck.Any time you see some clown posting an add in ALL CAPS,run don't walk from it !
More then happy to join the "not let me bid list" of his-not that it makes a difference !

2holer, besides Ithaca there are also many Foxes about with tubes that don't touch at the muzzle and with barrel lengths that are documented by factory records as original.

I am of the opinion that Lefever made many shotguns with non-touching tubes but I can't prove it because there are no factory records.

In my experience original length Parker tubes always make contact.

But there were other arguments besides tube non-contact made for the barrels being cut on this gun, including lack of keels and that the rib was high relative to the tops of the barrels. And the cross hatching on the solder is not known to be a Remington practice.

I have seen barrels chambered for 12 gauge with bore diameters down to 0.711

one of the things that makes old guns interesting is the fact that most factories would provide pretty much any option the customer was willing to pay for. combine that with the scarcity of original factory production records and one often has too conclude that it is sometimes impossible to know for sure if an old gun is in original condition or not.