doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Look at this Remington Grade 3 on Gunbroker

One also has to conclude that:

It cannot be proved that this gun was never owned by Wyatt Earp. I also conclude that it won't go for the same price it would if it could be proved that Mr. Earp owned it.

It cannot be proved that this gun was never owned by Teddy Roosevelt. We can conclude that it won't go for as much as it would if it had been documented that Teddy had carried it up San Juan Hill.

It cannot be proved that these barrels aren't, as they most certainly appear to be, cut. We can conclude that the gun wont go for anywhere near what it would go for if the barrels didn't appear to be most certainly cut.

I quoted you in case you decided to edit your post again. After someone has replied to my post I try to just edit for spelling and grammar and leave my arguments and statements of fact alone.

Some one said that the Remington the model 1894 and the model 1900 were offered with 26.barrels. That is true somewhat but only with the graded model 1894. The 1894 A grade and the model 1900 were only offered with 26in. barrels in the catalog the last one or two years of production and then only in steel barrels. Yes there were special order 26in. barrels but are very rare. Most all 26in. Remington barrels are cut. Every Remington I have looked at that were not cut over all these year's the barrels all touched at muzzle. I say this from over 45 year's of collecting and working on Remington doubles. Terry

Amarillomike;

I have a Belgian .710 bores which Belgians were famous for, but I don't recall ever measureing an American made classic with less than .725 for 12 ga. My Remingtons are between .729 and .731.

The listing is gone now, but I pulled out my two Remingtons when I could still see the gun in question and IMO the rib at muzzle was not too high. I think the cross hatch was an added touch.

2holer I don't think I have ever measured a Parker, Fox, or Ithaca with diameter any smaller than .720. I have never measured a Remington. I have measured German, Belgian, and English guns down to that .711 diameter.

How long are the chokes on your Remingtons? Are they hammerguns as this one is?

No other Remingtons are showing up with the crosshatch.

No other Remingtons are showing up without keels.

As I remember the picture that rib was certainly much higher than the one in the muzzleshot of Stallones' Remington hammergun:



Thanks for the information.

Don't measure a Baker than. I have several that are around .690. I would have to check again, but I think one is at .685. .695 seems almost common on my Bakers.

I have a Baker 10-gauge that has .750" bores. The tightest 12-gauge bores I've measured are in my early Fox Gun Co., Balto., MD., U.S.A. gun, .708" left and .712" right.

Amarillo,
I don't have a bore gauge, but ID leg calipers that can reach in 3 1/2" in a 12 to get diameter. It's within + or - 1. When I drag the calipers out slow I start to get a drag at about 2" so that must be where the chokes begin on my 1903 1900 damascus that has .730 bores. What are the bore measurements on your 1889?

The rib on my 30" 1900 looks like stallone's 1889.


I have six Elsies from 1892 to 1942 and all the bores are from .729 to .731.

I don't know what is meant by keels unless it is a triangular piece of metal between the barrels and rib rather than all filler. To me it's just a filler. There is no 'keel' on Hallowel's definition page. Maybe the gun in question does have .710 bores; who knows.

The only Fox 12 I owned was a 1929 Sterly with .725 bores.

Dave Katt; I think you are confusing muzzle measurement rather than bore. My Baker Batavia Damascus has .727 bore.

The seller of this 1889 says the bores measure .730. Very odd milled out watertable and barrel flats which I have never seen that appears to be factory; maybe special order.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=356416441

2holer thanks for the information. That muzzle picture is actually of the muzzle of Stallone's Remington hammergun that I stole from his post earlier in this thread.

Yes, the keels are those triangular pieces of steel used as filler. They are very nearly universal in factory muzzles of Ithacas, Foxes, and Parkers and other doubles. Their presence is so consistent in factory double gun muzzles that if I see a muzzle without a keel I assume it has been shortened or a third party gunsmith has worked on it. I may be wrong about how ubiquitous and consistent they are in original muzzles. But I don't own a single double that doesn't have them.