doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The new ways vs the old

You are missing the point. I readily concede modern technology can produce a mechanically equal or superior gun to the old ones. However, the machines lack what is most appealing to me: heart and soul. Perhaps it's a bit of a romantic notion in this day and age of sameness but I am drawn to the workmanship and art of the craftsman who applied his skill to create the gun. When I look on these guns I can only stand in awe at what perfection human hands can create without using the crutches of mechanical robots. Beautiful art can be produced by machinery but it can never attain the level of a master's touch, such as the Mona Lisa by da Vinci. A gun to me is way more than just a tool, it is a unique thing of beauty and function that I never tire of admiring in the many months between seasons. One mass produced can never have that level of attraction for me. In fact, I recently cancelled my order for a CSMC Inverness, not because it won't be a wonderful shooter but I knew I'd never have an emotional attachment with it. It is a machine made gun that will just be one of hundreds identical to each other and the skills of a workman have all but been eliminated.

oh come now Joe. Don't you think those perfectly timed torx head screws would grow on you over time?

Joe Wood,

I understand your point because I too like to handle and examine old hand built shotguns. But, today's best guns, although they look and feel like ther 100 year old predecessors, have lots of high tech machine work in them. Again, I am paraphrasing Bruce Owen, production manager of Purdeys- EDM wire cutting for the preliminary profiling of the action, EDM spark erosion machining for the underbolt recess, CNC machining for the rest of the action body and most of the internal bits. The story is pretty much similar over at Hollands. THe masterful hand you will descern in these doubles is that of the CAD programmer more so than that of the old time craftsman. The change goes down to the moleculra level, as Bruce Owen points out, the newer model actions are of high strength steel, not carbon steel because the machining stresses require stronger material, his words not mine.

The machines have not diminished the feel of the modern Purdeys and Hollands compared to the old ones, but you might not find those friendly faint file marks inside their actions.

MC- what I was hinting at was not an 870, even though my definition of best does not exclude pumps. The synthesis I had in mind was a Baker actioned double (Baker was a prolific English inventor who gave us the Baker ejector and the Lancaster 12/20 action), so our gun's genealogy is "proper". His coil sprung sidelock action finished to a high standard, with high quality monoblock barrels, plain extractors, ribless, with a nice straight grained american walnut stock made to measure would be a fine shotgun. External shape would be very like the Holland Dominion, and equally unengraved. It could be made to sell around 3000 dollars.

I would not mind such a double. Would you?

shotgunlover you are pissing into the wind.

Objective reality has no place on this BBS

This is the fantastical wonderland of romanticized crap.

Deal with it

HTH

have a day

Dr.WtS

some of us Romanticize all day long for living.....

I am reminded of the power of romance every time I come across yet another junky Spanish sidelock with model names such as "Connaught" or "London" etc.

one does need to know the difference between the real deal and poor quality imitations and it does take some time to able to see it.

Part of my job is appraisal of shotguns, so not being able to tell the difference would spell bankruptcy. Some of the most challenging cases are good guns with no makers' names, the most memorable a best quality Birmingham boxlock. That one taught me a lot about brand value.

i like sxs with ribs and wood and southgate ejectors.and the little signs that a person a hundred or so years ago worked on fitting parts.and left layout lines to hand cut the engraving.machine made parts and hand fit and finish works really well. i like classic guns, classic guitars, classic amps, classic cars, classic motorcycles.because of the hand work each one is a little different.i dont think this is romantic crap.but i do know a turd when i see one.

Hello Gentlemen, Gnomon, sorry you didnt get to try our gun when you visited last, if you are in the UK again, please let us know and we can arrange to meet you, alternatively we can send our gun to one of our Agents.

SKB nice to meet you. Our guns are not 'production line' they are all individually made to measure.

The way we make our barrels has several advantages and in fact, barrels made out of solid billets were first patented in 1857 by Sir Joseph Whitworth. Unfortunately labour costs at the time were cheap and technology expensive in comparison,for this reason gunmakers retained old methods, we are fortunate in that we already have the technology in place. Although our designs are different from Whitworths the benefits are the same. We feel that some of the turn of the century shotguns are wonderful however commercialism has taken over in some areas and the feel of those guns has been lost along the way. It is important to us to make guns which have the balance and pointablity of 'olde'. I hope you have the opportunity to try one of our guns one day and see for yourself how it feels.


I have attached the following link to our 'barrel innovation' page on our website listing some of the benefits, it also explains that our barrels are very much stronger than conventional barrels so are far less likely to 'dent'.

http://www.longthorneguns.com/cgi-bin/scribe?showinfo=Try-Hesketh

Thank you for listening

Our very best wishes
Longthorne Gunmakers