doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Lefever vs. LC Smith

This is a topic I'm surprised isn't discussed more often. Seeing as how they were direct competitors up until 1916 when Dan Lefever died, the relative merits of both guns up until that time period at least should be an interesting discussion. I'm just generally curious why people prefer one over the other, or if some of you own both. Personally, I'm a Lefever guy for aesthetic and engineering reasons, but I've seen some very lovely early Smiths that make your knees buckle. Also, realizing Lefevers are boxlocks with side plates, and Smiths are true sidelocks, is it a Ford vs Chevy discussion, or is it more than that? Have at it!

Mark, Dan Lefever died in 1906 as I recall. He had not been associated with Lefever Arms Co. for 5 or 6 years before his death. Yes, Fords and Chevy's .

Thanks for the correction Daryl, I got my dates mixed up.

Yes, I marvel at the innovations of the Lefevers, but I believe the added cost of such was partly the cause of their demise. I have an HE, three Bakers and six Elsies. The outside receiver configuration of the Lefever, which I like better, looks more like a Baker than LC.

Uncle Dan saw the light after his Lefever was stolen at the Empire State Tournament of 1896, and winning a Smith
Lefever, Hunter Arms and Parker were aggressively promoting both their guns and live bird and inanimate target shooting at that time.
Guns used at the Empire State Tournament
Smith-26, Parker-24, Lefever-16, Baker-11, Winchester-4
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1896/VOL_27_NO_13/SL2713020.pdf
Smith guns came out on top again, with 23 men using them. "Prince Mac" was well satisfied, and went home happy, even if he was heavily handicapped. When a man breaks 47 out of 50 he ought to get back at least his entrance money.

That's great info Drew. Does anyone know what became of the Smith that Dan won? That would be a bit of history to be sure. I wonder if it has little holes all over it from him throwing darts at it afterwards.

Guns used at the 1898 GAH
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1898/VOL_31_NO_02/SL3102019.pdf
Parker 56, Smith 42, Greener 20, Francotte 17, Remington 11, Cashmore 9, Lefever 8, Scott 8, Dalv 6, Winchester 5, Colt 4, Purdey 2, Richards 2, Churchill, Baker, Hollenbeck, Forehand and Staunard 1 each.

New York State Tournament 1899
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1899/VOL_33_NO_13/SL3313013.pdf
Guns: Smith 39, Parker 32, Lefever 16, Winchester 12, Remington 9, Greener 8, Francotte 7, Baker 4, Burgess 2, Prechtel 1, Scott 1, Purdey 1, Syracuse 1.

Like yourself, Mark, I greatly admire the LeFever aesthetic. Beyond that, a lot of the technical aspects seem to be gimmickry that shouldn't really be needed in a well built gun.

I know what Lefever was trying to do, but I'm just saying. That ball joint sure is fun to play with, but if lubed hinge pins work just fine, why design something for the person that won't help maintain his own gun? Maybe the adjustable bolting was required because the system seems kind of skimpy in the first place. And so forth.

Don't get me wrong. If I had one in nearly new condition, I think I could make it last forever (i.e., my remaining shooting years) and I'd love it to death. But a good Smith would last longer.

Owning and shooting both I much prefer the later Lefevers with the in frame ejectors. Nothing says innovation and quality like a Lefever. Now if we add Foxes to the mix I rate the Fox every bit equal to the Lefever for durability and aesthetics with the added advantage of strength and simplicity of design especially in the smaller gauges.

Little known Lefever- LC Smith connection. Dan's son Frank was the superintendent of Hunter Arms during the 1920's. Many LC Smiths were made by a Lefever.