doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Lefever vs. LC Smith

Ithaca5E, the Lefever ball joint is way more than "something to play with". It works, and it works just about forever unless the frame cracks. I find it hard to believe that no one else ever picked it up. In more than 55 years of messing with Lefevers, I have bought one that needed the screw turned. It turned about five degrees to tighten the gun and will never need to be tightened again. If it were a hinge pin gun, it would have needed a talented gunsmith or a shade tree fix.

Eightbore ,spot on!!! ...A Smith as much as I like them don't hold a candle to a Lefever,every "gadget " had a purpose and they worked damn well,and for lack of a better term "a commen sense fix "...to think that nobody else picked up his idea's and ran with it is just silly.

I'm a Parker guy ,a Smith guy ,a Baker guy and an Ithaca guy ,but when you just look and realize what Dan made theres just no comparison

I'll take a Lefever over a Smith of similar grade any day of the week. Several of the "Adjustments" were eliminated on guns of the single cocking hook variety beginning in the mid to late 1890's. The adjustable ball screw did remain till the end.

My 1908 Lefever H has a tiny screw behind the upper tang screw. What does it do?

It allows the shooter to adjust the safety to be either automatic or manual. One turn makes the switch.

Joe is right, but they don't always work. My Grandfather's 1887 E Grade pigeon gun has the screw, but it doesn't do much of anything. Something inside must be broken or out of adjustment. Granddad was born in 1856, so he probably bought the gun new, since it's the only pigeon gun my Dad ever remembers him using.

I know this is sort of a matter of terminology, but the tang screw on a Lefever does not turn it into a manual safety. What it does is turn it into a Non-Safety. A little tenon on the end of the screw enters a hole in the safety slide when it is turned down, thus locking the safety in the rear Fire position. The safety is not meant to be moved as long as that screw is turned down locking the safety. What has happened to a lot of them over the years is someone who didn't understand them has Forcefully pushed the safety forward to the safe position without backing up the screw & breaking off the tenon in the process. They then of course no longer work as intended.

The ball joint sounds like a useful feature which seems to eliminate the process of retightening. Is it possible to see a photo of this feature? Us non Americans are not that familiar with US classic doubles but are curious about them. Is there any sort of grub screw to keep the ball joint in a fixed position once it has been tightened?

Of all the US doubles the Lefever is most rare in Europe. Returning emigrants have brought back Smiths and Parkers, some Foxes but hardly any Lefevers. Perhaps they were more costly than the other makes and so were not favored?

Shotgunlover, someone will come along soon with a photo of the joint. It is sheer genius and the design leaves a huge amount of steel at the front of the bar giving that area incredible strength. The ball does not need any retaining screw but self tightens. It appears the threads are tapered and the further the ball is turned in the tighter it snugs up. In fact, one of the hardest things to do is turn one after it has been in place for a hundred years. To me a better design would have been a straight thread and the retaining set screw you mentioned. Also, the bar of the action is as strong as they come since there is no cocking rod holes drilled in it. Lefevers are just absolute marvels of design and engineering. I too have never understood why your side of the pond didn't grab hold of it. One more technical point: it is not a boxlock in the ordinary sense of the word but a hybrid between a sidelock and boxlock.

Joe: Only some of the Lefevers are hybrids. The only one I have, an F grade built about 1906 is a true boxlock. The false sideplates serve only to cover the action and hold the cocking indicator buttons. The DS grade doesn't even have the cocking indicators. I understand that some earlier guns had the sears mounted on the sideplates, which in my opinion is a really bad idea..