doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Lefever vs. LC Smith

The few Lefevers that I have seen needing the adjustment made can be counted on one hand. The number of other makes loose after a hundred years is many times more. I had two which needed a slight turn and slight is the term. One went easy and one not so easy. The hard one was the two point spanner type ball and until I made a tool by grinding a grade 8 bolt into a driver to get the ball moving to it was stuck fast. The repair or adjustment cost almost nothing while making a new hing pin would cost a few hundred. Hard to understand why other makers never used the design.

There was a Lever on display at the Curtis Museum in Liege. After a remodeling it was taken out of the displayed collection for a time at least.

I think it has more to do with numbers produced than price point.

Pete

I have actually only had two of these screws out, the rest I have not turned. Both of these I checked both the diameters with a micrometer & the thread pitch with thread wires. Both were absolutely straight no taper to the screws. Others, whom I fully believe, have told me they have checked Lefevers with tapered screws. In the case of the two I checked the hole was not fully tapped all the way through. The screw would run easily, but with a firm, close fit until just as it reached the proper position. At this point the screw tightened into the lead area of the tap thus making a very tight fit. A bit of pressure is required to adjust it in the bit needed for tightening it. Both of these were on large hook guns & were of the screwdriver slotted type.

I believe that design was made to mfgr with common labor. File fit a barrel or turn a screw? Stone a trigger to adjust pull or turn a screw. So many of the adjusting screws that we refer to as wear adjustments greatly eased assembly by less skilled labor.

bill

Back to the original topic, it's Lefevers all the way for me. I have not handled another gun that looks or feels as "proper" as a Lefever. I feel they are pure performance machines, a true race car among regular sports cars. I have owned many guns from several makers (all American) and all my best have been Lefevers. I don't put down any other makers mind you, I just praise Lefever. When comparing a Smith and a Lefever, what stands out the most to me is the way they open and close. My Smiths are so very stiff to open/ cock and with ejectors require so much force to close. My Lefevers open smoothly and fluidly whether they have ejectors or not and close without force yet still lock up firmly. Of course I feel that picking a double gun falls in the exact same category as bird dogs and women in that no one else can decide what tickles your fancy and there is so rarely a wrong answer.

2holer thank you for the pics, now I understand the principle. It really is ingenuous, and simple. And from what other posters state it lasts and lasts.

If I were building doubles with less than best qualified people this would have been the first thing to copy.

The only problem with those ball and socket hinge joints is that by the time they need adjusting, the ball end screw may be difficult or impossible to turn. I have soaked some for several months in good penetrating oil, applied as much heat as I dared without discoloring the action like an "old Ed Lander" case color job, tapped with a brass rod, etc., before I could budge it. I have seen many that are buggered up by heavy handed attempts to move. The two hole spanner type are even more of a problem if frozen because the two tits on your home-made spanner will not withstand the same torque as a screwdriver in a slot. I have an I grade action that has been soaking in penetrating oil for well over a year, and I fear it may be beyond hope and will have to be drilled out. I have a replacement from another I grade that I bought from Bill Schodlatz. Maybe he'll be along to tell us how much fun he had removing it. Hopefully the thread size or pitch did not change.

Miller told us that the ones he measured had straight threads, and I absolutely believe him. He's a machinist who knows his measuring tools. But we know Lefever was constantly tinkering and experimenting with his designs. The only two I've measured both had a slight taper to the threads. I have the dimensions for one from a D.M. Lefever crossbolt in my notes: .519"-.520"OD at the screw slot end and .515"-.516" at the ball end. Thread diameter at root of threads at the top is .481" and .479" at the bottom. Thread pitch was, near as I could measure, approx. 8 threads in .312", which would equate to around 25.6 threads per inch. Nothing on my standard or metric thread pitch gauges matched. I did not measure the internal threads in the action knuckle, but there is not much adjustment there before it gets too tight to turn. Fortunately, my D.M. crossbolt only needed a wee bit. Keith Kearcher has said that he has polished the threads to pick up a fraction of a turn more on really loose guns. I seriously doubt that this system permitted the use of poor or inexperienced craftsmen. Quite the opposite, and probably a big reason no other maker adopted it.

I own and shoot Lefevers and L.C. Smiths. Both are nice and both have their faults. The safety aspect of not having intercepting sears has been discussed before. Both have weak buttstocks (fragile around the inletting)and are prone to damage around the action and sideplates. Both are difficult (read expensive) to properly re-stock. The cost to do it professionally will often exceed the value of the gun. Glass bedding a Model 700 varmint rifle is one thing. Glass bedding a classic double makes me squeamish for some reason.

I have never owned a Lefever. Just never got the opportunity to buy one right. I will be looking closely at the Southern S x S next month for one, in the right configuration for me. Graded Lefevers are beautiful guns, no doubt. Who knows, maybe there'll be one, or more, there.

Wasn't expecting this to be there either, a few years ago, but when I looked at the tag on it and found that it was completed on my birthday, Oct. 13 (not the same year!!), well, the rest is history.



16 gauge, 32" barrels, Hunter One Trigger, and ejectors on a Field grade, in 98% original condition.

I would be open to the charms of a lithe little Lefever, though.

SRH

That is a beautiful photo, Stan. Thanks for sharing It.