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A bit disappointing, equivocating what seems to be sage advice that started the discussion with sibling squabbles.

What's interesting to me is becoming the victim. Someone is 'called out' and that person gives the effort to respond in detail. Only one point, photos, is selected for acknowledgement and the rest is dismissed as uncivil and undeserved bolts of lightening.

It might(?) be possible that character could be called into question if two are conversing and one breaks off the issues. Nothing wrong with figuring I'm done with the issue, but not answering by changing the subject means the 'discussion' continues with new territory introduced.

Seems to me like civility is starting to mean stir the pot. Kind of a generic statement, but so many of the forum righteous who took Rooks' side use all and more of the character assassination words.

"Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing."

John Stuart Mill Speech 1867

I firmly believe the intent of individuals like NCA225 etc. was to make this area(Misfires) as reprehensible and obnoxious as possible. Their goal was to have the "Misfires" area closed down to any "political" discussion particularly regarding firearms ownership and firearms owners rights. This is a ploy that has unfortunately been used on other forums with success and the closet anti's arguing that there's political forums set up elsewhere just for that purpose. This is little different than the "mainstream news media's" only reporting negatives insofar as firearms ownership goes. We know the majority of the general public never hears the real truth just the medias attempt to paint firearms and firearms owners in as bad a light as possible.
I'm paraphrasing here: But the male Libtard jerk who was just recalled in Colorado actually stated that firearms ownership is "some form of mental illness".
As an aside: For those that have pleaded for discussion and compromise with our adversaries just how far do you think we would get with a libtard like this one from Colorado?
Dave Weber never fell for this closet anti-gunner ploy as he's a fellow firearms owner and a resident of New York State which has experienced the suppression of rights for honest firearms owners to a degree rarely seen before.
Like Keith; I have a very low level of tolerance for bullshit when I hear it or read it.
I have called posters on it and will continue to do so. If anyone want's to avoid this all they have to do is keep their posts factual and opinions sensible. However if "sensible to you means you are of the Diane Feinstein-Chuck Schumer school in regard to firearms ownership I'd highly recommend you find some other place to post. I for one am NOT interested in your socialist "opinion" as I can hear it stated over and over just by turning on CBS,NBC etc.
As far as name calling and vile accusations go I was subject to these from the likes of NCA225 to an great extent. I believe this was done in an attempt to get me to "go ballistic" and Dave to shut down this area of the forum.
Apparently the majority of these closet anti-gun people have left after they discovered they wouldn't be getting their way here.
Jim

I post a lot here in misfires. I am Canadian, so have different specific issues than the majority here with regards to protecting my right to continue to own and use firearms. I live in a country that is, despite some hard won gains, vastly more restrictive of gun ownership than the US.

I am sure most who post and read here know what I think. I advocate for the endless battle against firearm restrictions of any sort because I believe there is no such thing as reaching a compromise position with the anti-gunners. They conduct an incremental war, using every trick, ethical and otherwise, and think in terms not of years or decades but generations. Because of that I believe we should allow them no quarter, no compromise, no "sensible" measure. Because that is not what will satisfy them.

What I advocate for, with regards to gun rights, is that the government and the "left" piss off and go chase real criminals.

Most involved here will also know that I advocate for a civil discussion.

I completely get Keith's point. I get why Doug, Craig, Jim and others support Keith and what he has been doing with regard to King. However, at some point Keith, I would ask, to what benefit are you aiming for now? Keeping the record straight? Calling King to account? Stopping the rest of us from believing the misinformation?

We are all adults here. I would suggest none of what King (or Gnomon, nca or any of the other "liberals") say here is going to change either our minds or our actions. King won't "lull" me and he won't lull most others here.

If what you are aiming for is a Misfires where just four or five politically like-minded individuals post, well, that's different than what I look for. I'd like a lively exchange of ideas, where foolish and inaccurate ones are thrown out for discussion and derided as much as good ones are lauded. But not an all out assault on one person that never ends. It is now like the knight in the classic Monty Python skit, endlessly challenging for a duel. You have killed his horse, cut off his limbs, taken away his weapons. Should you continue just because he keeps asking for it?

I like having nca, gnomon, King and others post here, if only to remind myself of just how silly and deluded they can be on certain subjects. Because I know there are other subjects on which they may have something to offer. I like to be reminded BY EXPOSURE how wrong they are on subjects dear, like arms control. Hell, if it was just us talking, we might forget the importance of supporting the NRA and other organizations that aim to protect our property rights.

As enjoyable as it may be, conversing only with those who entirely agree with us, lessens our chances of learning something valuable.

This originally was a duplicate post but I have decided to add something.

During the course of many of these threads the subject of religion has come up. A number have made it clear they are RC, others profess a personal relationship with Jesus. Each believer believes profoundly in their own faith.

I don't. None of them have evidence that I accept as being true. Myths. Made up by man for man's purposes.

Do I call them all liars or fools? No I don't. Do I think they are trying to trick me. No I don't. I accept that part of the challenge of living a good life is accepting that others can choose to believe what they want, regardless of the evidence or lack, that I see.

Why do I mention this? Because belief in man made global warming or the belief in the goodness and wisdom of Obama or the belief in the evil nature of inanimate objects like guns strike me as beliefs of a religious nature. Not founded on anything real. Easily dismissed by what I see as fact. People believe in these ideas because it makes them feel better.

But that's just me and I respect the right of others to disagree.

I disagree, but that's not why I'm commenting. You have a position. So be it, and more power to another who can make a pro Christianity case.

What I do notice is that you did not bring up pedophilia, misogyny, or some bastardization of religion. You have a position, but didn't bring up some anecdote about joe blow down the street who's an insincere believer, and vigorously pass it off as fact.

CB: I disagree as well. However; Not with your stating your views on religion.
However; On the other hand this is a firearms forum and I don't think anyone regardless of their religious beliefs is trying to "convert" anyone to their views here.
My whole point above is the closet gun grabbers who are on here to try and stifle exchanging information on what's going on in the political arena regarding gun grabbing in an attempt to "control" information to only what is being "provided" by the so-called 'mainstream news media". The mainstream news media has gone out of its way to paint us in as bad a light as possible.
The whole reason Dave opened up that Informational gun control thread in the main area, over their protests by the way, was to make sure everyone was kept as current as possible on the anti's activities.
I will continue to out gun grabbers for exactly what they are socialists intending to reduce our individual right to the extent possible.
And I'll say it again; IF YOUR A CLOSET GUN GRABBER POSTING ON HERE I COULD CARE LESS WHAT YOUR OPINION MAY BE.
Jim
P.S:
I'm not Craig CB: I can tell you what I disagree with since we were posting at the same time. I am a strong believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. I make no attempt to convert but you might want to read the article written by the former Chicago Sun Times reporter who was an atheist and now makes a very strong case for the existence of God.

Perhaps I'm being thick today Craig, but what is it you disagree with? Or maybe a more pertinent question is what does that fact that I did not mention pedophilia, misogyny or some anecdote have to do with what I said? I can't tell if you are criticizing my comments or complimenting them.

No

James,

For those that believe in God, Judeo/Christian faiths, your analogy between Religion, Guns, Obama, Libtard values, etc. make absolutely no sense.

To Judeo/Christians, religion IS NOT an inanimate object as are your examples posted above, so there is no correlation whatsoever......none, zero, nada......

Intelligent discussion with libtards is near impossible as the falsehoods put forth are twisted and out of context with reality. Only King and Gnomon touch occasionally on something that can be discussed at an intelligent level, albeit liberal pacification is their theme......

Nca, DaveInMaine, RockyMountainFerguson, homer, Jay Gardner, F2F, OWD, cpa and the rest of the libtards have yet to touch on anything of substance and their participation is useless IMO.

They post to disrupt and put forth anti-gun rhetoric as proven by their support of our current administration, the most anti-gun, anti freedom, pro-socialist administration EVER, in the history of this country............

I believe Craig means that since you mentioned religion as a questionable truth in your mind, why not the other topics of conjecture such as misogyny, pedophilia and so forth...?....I could very well be wrong, but I think that is his meaning..?..

As Jim stated above, and as Keith continually exposes, most of us feel that calling out the libtards on their anti gun socialist and destructive b.s., exposes them to whoever reads this forum.

We really do not want the U.S. to end up like England or Canada..., lulled by socialists into your loss of handguns and so forth. I think those of us that are vocal about the anti's and their devious, falsehood postings will continue to expose the untruths that they post.

An extreme amount of pride was evident from PROUD PRO-GUN Americans who watched as Colorado threw out the politically elected Libtard fools who initiated the anti-gun legislation in that state.......a real day of GLORY for sure.

Best,

All I'm thinking canvasback is I can disagree with you agreeably on this point. The other inflammatory comments come from the civil folks who we're told are making valid points, and unfairly (illegally?) being subject to different opinions. I think your comment is fine, though I wouldn't fault sound disagreement. I faulted King's concept of religion, because it seemed to change based on the feeling of the moment.

I don't think King will lull me either, but he says he has been and is politically active. When I read his strategy for pushing an agenda, I don't think he would advise an up and coming politician to respect opposing points of view. I think he would come up with whatever it takes to 'progress', while presenting as civil.

Jim, I know what you think. I have no problem with anyone "outing" a gun grabber. Frankly, if they post here on misfires, they will out themselves over time. But I don't believe that is what is going on with Keith and King anymore. At some point it morphed into something else.

As far as them "stifling" us here.... I just don't believe any of them think they will "stifle" us. They may be foolish enough to think that they can trick us, fool us or convert us but that doesn't bother me. Just as it has never bothered me, in fact I have enjoyed it, when I have debated with friends about their religious beliefs, be they Jewish, Mormon, Anglican, RC, Muslim or something else. I don't need to silence them to know I am correct. Just as the smart ones know they don't need to silence me to know they are correct.

I'm not interested in the tyranny of the majority, here or anywhere. I will never demand Keith stop. I won't call him wrong. I would never complain to Dave, about him or anyone else here. I believe in free speech. Good and bad, slanderous and complimentary. Don't like it, get out. All that jazz.

But I also want someplace that I can go and hang with like minded people. That's why I came here in the first place. Doubles, dogs, hunting. I believe everyone who has signed up here enjoys some version of those things. They also may be misguided supporters of Obama and enemies of the 2cd amendment but for me, that's okay. When they talk about those things here, their ignorance will show.