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Forums10
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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,015
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,015 |
Kalif has "registration" ? wow things are worse there then I thought.
If you filled out a 4473 (and did the NICS check) then gun was transferred and must go to a FFL (01 or 03 if qualified)for interstate shipment,if not-like the one in Jims example, it can go back to owner direct per 8 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A).
"Talked to the feds" means you got an opinion,I have asked the ATF about this as well and received about a 70% correct answer-100% when I showed them the code and they were unable to find a code that says it must go through a FFL if not transferred (4473-NICS)
7. May I lawfully ship a firearm directly to an out-of-
State licensee, or must I have a licensee in
my State ship it to him? May the licensee return the firearm to me, even if the shipment is across
State lines?
Any person may ship firearms directly to a licensee in any State, with no requirement for another
licensee to ship the firearm. However, handguns are not mailable through the United States Postal
Service and must be shipped via common or contract carrier.(18 U.S.C. 1715). Firearms shipped
to FFLs for repair or any other
lawful purpose may be returned to the person from whom received
without transferring the firearm through an FFL in the recipients State of residence. FFLs may also
return a replacement firearm of the same kind and type to the person from whom received. 1
8 U.S.C.
922(a)(2)(A)
You can never go wrong with shipping to an FFL. In most instances he will know his States laws inside out. At this time CA does not have a registration of firearms. When returning a gun to the owner "interstate" the federal law is law in force.
Hillary For Prison 2018
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
""Talked to the feds" means you got an opinion,I have asked the ATF about this as well and received about a 70% correct answer-100% when I showed them the code and they were unable to find a code that says it must go through a FFL if not transferred (4473-NICS)"
The BATF is frequently set up at a table at the Crossroads Show. The table is given to them free by the promoter. I spent about an hour talking to the two agents(a male and a female) a couple of shows ago. It was amazing to me just how little the know and understand about the actual federal firearms regulations.
I also used to chat with the agents doing an audit at the Scottsdale Gun Club. They are audited frequently because of their size. IMO: These agent understood the regulations well as it applied to a business such as this but again seemed pretty clueless in regard to individual transactions.
Jim
The 2nd Amendment IS an unalienable right.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 626
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 626 |
Kalif has "registration" ? wow things are worse there then I thought.
If you filled out a 4473 (and did the NICS check) then gun was transferred and must go to a FFL (01 or 03 if qualified)for interstate shipment,if not-like the one in Jims example, it can go back to owner direct per 8 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A).
"Talked to the feds" means you got an opinion,I have asked the ATF about this as well and received about a 70% correct answer-100% when I showed them the code and they were unable to find a code that says it must go through a FFL if not transferred (4473-NICS)
7. May I lawfully ship a firearm directly to an out-of-
State licensee, or must I have a licensee in
my State ship it to him? May the licensee return the firearm to me, even if the shipment is across
State lines?
Any person may ship firearms directly to a licensee in any State, with no requirement for another
licensee to ship the firearm. However, handguns are not mailable through the United States Postal
Service and must be shipped via common or contract carrier.(18 U.S.C. 1715). Firearms shipped
to FFLs for repair or any other
lawful purpose may be returned to the person from whom received
without transferring the firearm through an FFL in the recipients State of residence. FFLs may also
return a replacement firearm of the same kind and type to the person from whom received. 1
8 U.S.C.
922(a)(2)(A)
You can never go wrong with shipping to an FFL. In most instances he will know his States laws inside out. At this time CA does not have a registration of firearms. When returning a gun to the owner "interstate" the federal law is law in force. 1. If one party is not from California, the transfer becomes INTERSTATE and is governed by Federal Law (18)in addition to California Law and 2. The Dealer Record of Sale software (DRos -- see page 40 in the .pdf) will accept only California or military identification documents. This last would seem to apply only to the buyer - why then would the seller be subject to DROS? The dealer must be prepared for the buyer to fail the background check. If that were to occur, the dealer would have to attempt to convey the gun back to the seller - and that return requires a background check on the seller. To wit: Part of Penal Code 12082(a) Posts: In this case CA code is more stringent and applies.
Last edited by PM; 09/13/13 11:46 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,468
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,468 |
We are in Oregon which is a "blue" state thanks to the People's Republic of Portland. However, it has an extremely strong hunting/gun tradition. Maybe we have problems because we sell so many firearms. We have been in the same location for over 30 years and are the preferred shop in our area. Or it may be that you don't want to know of problems and assume there are none.
As far as state laws go, we can sell a long gun to individuals who come into the shop from ANY state in the union EXCEPT Kalefornia. WE must ship ANY non-antique gun to an FFL dealer in that state then he does the transfer. HOWEVER, we cannot ship ANY gun to that FFL dealer UNTIL we have contacted some odious state board which gives us a number that allows us to ship a gun into Kalefornia. Also, many guns are illegal there which are perfectly legal elsewhere. This is all before the new, even more odious gun laws which will be voted on in the Kal state houses in the near future.
Pete
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,468
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,468 |
As for knowledgeable Feds/locals, good points have been made. I was foreman of the Grand Jury for a couple on months and can tell you that the DA and ADA's are rather clueless about gun laws. Also, I was shocked that the MANY drug dealers that were arrested were never charged as being felons in possession of firearms either by the locals or Feds. The Feds also did not care about illegally sawed off shotguns. Evidently, they don't want to clog the prisons with these folks. Looking at the inside on these matters gets rather interesting.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438 Likes: 1 |
I thought that perhaps this quote would be apt at this time.
Jim
"Nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced."
Albert Einstein
The 2nd Amendment IS an unalienable right.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,468
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,468 |
It happened again yesterday. Customer gets high bid on line for an FN five-seven. WV company sends it to us for the transfer. Customer fills out 4473 and gets delayed by the state until late October. Customer has paid everybody and decides to wait. I recommend he calls state provided number to identify the problem. All this will run 'way past the seller's 3-day period so no return is possible. Sooooo, what happens if he is denied? It is in our books. We cannot return it. We cannot give it to him. We cannot be part of a straw man deal. We won't buy the gun from him because he likely paid too much.
Do you see how transfers are the biggest headache in the gun business?
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438 Likes: 1 |
Well Pete:
In this case IMO offering him less than he paid for it so you come out ok and he doesn't lose everything is not only ethical but the only way to get the deal done.
Anyone have another idea?
Jim
The 2nd Amendment IS an unalienable right.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,468
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,468 |
Complicating factor:He paid about $1550, our cost (when available) is $988. He would have to really accept a beating.
This just goes to prove two points: 1) Transfers can be trouble. 2) Trouble happens often.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 610
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 610 |
This will show dealers that receive from private parties in the area he is and prices. http://www.gunbroker.com/FFL/DealerNetwork.aspx
Last edited by 2holer; 09/14/13 08:05 PM.
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