doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Myth of unsafe Damascus still alive

I was ignorant about twist barrels in the early 60s. I had bought a Batavia Leader for $12 from a guy who needed gas. After sitting in the closet for a couple years unused by me a friend was going to go phez hunting and asked to borrow it.

He returned the gun stating he had got his limit for two days. He was using Super x loads.

AFter gaining a little more knowledge about the gun I realized it was unsafe. That old circa 1910 twist barreled Baker had significantly pitted bores from one end to the other and about 12 small dents on the barrels and held up to those Super X loads. Still have the gun and and there was no appearant damage. One thing that probably helped was someone had cut the barrels and the chokes measure IC/IC.

Y�all keep bringing up examples of American made damascus barreled guns as being safe and I imagine that most are, after all with no proof houses American manufacturers over-built their guns to avoid blown barrels and subsequent lawsuits. However, at the same time the US was being deluged with extremely poor quality damascus (twist) barreled guns from overseas. Many of these guns may not have been safe even when they were brand new (JABC�s). It could be that American manufacturers, without pointing a finger, were damning damascus barreled guns in general because of all the poor-quality import guns that were still in daily use. Without having to pass proof, the US must have been a great dumping ground for such low-quality crap.

This is just speculation, based on a somewhat cynical view of human nature, but knowing that it was going to the US, all the foreign manufacturer probably had to do was inform his proof house, pay a small bribe and the gun automatically passed proof with no worries about it coming back on them should a barrel rupture. Another JABC washes up on our shore.

Steve

Outstanding points, Rockdoc, and very likely valid.

It was just less than 10 years ago I became interested in double guns. Was at the skeet range with some friends and one was shooting an LC Smith. He let me shoot it a little, and I was absolutely hooked. His gun had steel barrels, and after a cursory glance at popular "knowledge", I also reralized I needed a steel barreled gun. I looked around and overpaid for an I grade Lefever with fluid steel. I enjoyed the gun very much and wanted more, but realized that fluid steel barrels on old Lefevers were simply not a dime a dozen. So by necessity I began to look more closely at damascus guns. It's not been so long ago that I can't remember that the "expert" articles and the forum conversations were still 25 to 1 concluding that damascus was not safe. It was confusing and frustrating, because as soon as I had convinced myself that it would be safe, I read one more thread or article that seeded doubt. Many of those came from this forum even.

Finally, I decided I would get a damascus gun, and bought a G grade Lefever for a very fair price. The owner assured me he'd shot it safely without issue, and I picked up a case of RST shotshells and headed to the range. The two buddies I was shooting with would not stand near me, and I remember the great reservation I felt shooting that first round. I kept feeling the barrels for bulges, and looking down the tubes for tell-tale signs of impending doom. I must have broken less than 10 birds on a game of skeet because I was so focused on my loss of life or limb that could happen at any moment.

I lived, learned, kept shooting that gun, and lost my fear and ignorance. Then I bought more damascus guns and shot them without being blown up. With each new one, my friends continued to act the same way, standing back and commenting about my stupidity. They loved the old doubles too, but "wouldn't take the risk" of shooting damascus guns.

It took a few more years, but they have recently all come around, and are shooting damascus guns as well. We all like quality american guns (LC, Parker, Lefever, etc), and are confident in the quality of these barrels. None of us would be unwise enough to pick up some junk old twist gun and think to do the same thing.

I guess my long winded story leads to this statement. Even someone who wants to understand has a hard time becoming confident on this topic because of the massive volume of mis-information. One may want to become educated, but I remember that it was very difficult to make that leap. I'm glad I did, or I wouldn't now have some really amazing and functional pieces of classic american sporting culture.

Correct-o-- Sot- as in the Shakespeare character Falstaff-- now sod, besides meaning lawn or green grass, as in the Irish blessing(?) Sod you, Mate- refers to the Biblical village of Sodomy--long since "gone with the wind"--

A-rose- either Gertrude Stein- "A rose is a rose is a rose" or possibly- my favorite late lady painter- georgia O'Keefe- she loved the shapes of roses- very feminine in nature, and a beautiful o'ject d'art!!

The 1902 Sears catalog reprint I have Has several "articles" about how those new fangled steel barrels are safe to shoot and won't blow up, And they are as good as a twist barrel. It's all a matter of economics. The manufacturers want to sell whatever they think they will make the most money. Good barrels are good barrels. The main deal with Damascus is it is so much more labor intensive, and the loss of almost 30% of the raw material during manufacture. Plus to properly finish the exterior of Damascus takes 2 to 3 times as long. The early fluid steel had the potential of inclusions inside the barrels with no indications it would fail. Good is good, abused is abused, and crap is crap. Caveat Emptor

Indeed. When both Meriden/Aubrey and Crescent began offering 'Armory Steel' 1909-1910 the future of pattern welded barrels in this country was determined.

I shoot Damascus with low pressure reloads, and agree with most of what has been written above. I've never had any problems.

Just wondering: Has anyone in this group actually had a Damascus or Twist barrel "blow-up" in normal use? I suspect it is very rare.