doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Myth of unsafe Damascus still alive

The people you mention of all sorts of experience but no evidence to support their beliefs are common as rain. I'm certain they think the same of me. It has nothing to do with age.

Huh?? There we go with the flowery language again, King.

Ed Good, it's "sot" not "sod" in this case, as in "a drunken sot" an alcoholic.

Just a comment, buzz, to member asking where people who believe strange things come from, as if it were peculiar. The examples he gave referred to age. I regret my language was flowery; I try to avoid it.

So we have Ithaca in the mid-late 1960s advising against shooting modern loads in Damascus guns and I am sure other companies were doing the same at this time. When would the earliest letter of this type exist? five years after they quit making damascus guns, 10 years, maybe more? I think it would be interesting to chart out when all thr major manufacturers in the US stopped selling Damascus guns.

Additionally it would be interesting to chart the evolution of the shotshell from year to year to compare what rounds were being sold when the manufacturers transitioned from offering Damascus barrels to only steel. I guess my question is something like which came first, the chicken or the egg? Who really drove the train on the change from Damascus to fluid steel barrels, the gun manufacturers or the ammo manufacturers? I tend to think it was the manufacturers simply because the ammo companies wouldnt put the cart before the horse and make new rounds that supposedly couldn't or shouldn't be shot in the guns that were readily available.

Personally I feel both world wars forced and trained manufacturers to supply large volumes in short timeframes and that made it so the slow hand made Damascus wouldn't ever cut it again from a production standpoint, especially after we learned to mass produce our own fluid steel barrels. (Not to mention every GI getting out of the service had a new need for speed and firepower after shooting machine guns - remind anyone of the current trend in AR-15s?).

TwiceBarrel, you mention something I've read and heard for a decade now and it seems to be as much if not more of a myth than Damascus barrels are unsafe; That one can get really sweet deals on Damascus barreled vintage guns because the vendor does not know that they are, in fact, safe to shoot and worth as much if not more than some of his other vintage guns with fluid steel barrels.

I have NEVER come across a situation where this is the case. NEVER.

Please understand that I am not attacking you, it's just that you happened to be the one who repeated this old chestnut that's been floating around for a longtime.

The situation has gotten to the point now where a lot of people are savvy and more often than not they'll charge more for a vintage gun with nice Damascus barrels than if it had fluid steel tubes.

Has anyone here ever been able to take advantage of a situation where they got a real steal of a deal on a vintage gun with Damascus barrels because the seller thought they were worthless?

I'm really curious about this. If you have profited in this way I'd also like to know, if you can recall, the year of the deal.

Well here are three examples:

8 years ago I bought a LC Smith Quality 2 10 gauge first year production gun built on the massive frame used for 8 and heavy 10 gauge guns that retains most of the faded case colors and damascus pattern remaining $220.00

2 years ago I picked up an 1890s vintage 16 gauge Lefever F grade absolutely beautiful wood, most of the faded colors and 100% damascus pattern $900.00

Earlier this year I found an early 1900s vintage 16 gauge Lefever G grade good colors but the barrels only showing about 40% damascus pattern $400.00 barrels beautifully re blacked by Dale Edmonds $300 total $700.00.

If you are looking for these types of values stay away from the specialty vintage gun dealer because they do indeed know the values. Only the F grade Lefever came from a brick and mortar operation the rest came from small (hobby) dealers.

Channing: I think the transition to fluid steel, rather than the introduction of Western Cartridge Co. 'Super-X' in 1922, and the Peters 'High Velocity' and Remington's 'Nitro Express Extra Long Range' loads shortly thereafter. The "These shells must not be used in guns with Damascus or Twist Steel barrels" warning did not appear on shell boxes until the late 1930s.

Hunter Arms was one of the earliest American maker to offer fluid steel on other than the highest grade guns. Crown steel first appeared with the Pigeon Grade in 1893, No. A 1 (SN 1130) in 1894, was also used for the No. 3 about 1895. The other U.S. makers soon followed and the 'rough forged tubes' were almost certainly Belgian - except Remington, and later Winchester.
See https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=17ixogftgITEblNUWtmFBv96ZvgjK6eFell8GsAWd-KI

Damascus production in Belgium essentially ceased during German occupation of WWI. J. Delcour-Dupont in Nessonvaux tried to revive production after the war, but according to Puraye, the last year damascus barrels were made was 1930 and by then all the U.S. makers had long since transitioned to cheaper fluid steel tubes.
So inform the public that the old fashioned Damascus barrels were dangerous in order to sell more 'new and improved' guns, including the increasingly popular repeaters.

Buzz,,,huh???
I understood kingbrown just fine, what the hell was flowery about his comment???
Was it the mention of rain?..or, are you just saying something blooming daft that a-rose from between your tulips, bud?

franc

Yes, probably just something blooming daft that a-rose from between my tulips there, bud! ;-))