doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com so what does it take to kill a grouse or pheasant?

What little grouse hunting I have done was with Federal Flyer load (F124 7.5) in a fairly hevay O/U. It is what I had used on boxed birds and is 1 1/4oz of very hard shot, 3 1/4 dr eq. Of course it Killed them just fine, but did I even need that much?

You know the drill-early birds flushed close and you were lucky to see them due to vegetation, while late birds were no problem to see but flushed at long range.

I am now living in the heart of grouse country again and want to do a good deal of hunting this year. I have a couple of old Belgian doubles that would be nice to use and want some low pressure loads that will kill grouse in early or late season. Also looks like I will be going on a pheasant hunt out of state for a week and was wondering if the 65mm chambers and low pressures were good for wild pheasants, or if I needed to stick to the heavier O/U I have traditionally used?

Thanks!

Marc, there are so many low pressure 2 1/2" loads out there that you will have your choice of what you like.
I'm sure that Revdocdrew will be along and give you the information you need. If any are 16 ga. you can go over to the 16 ga Relaoders site and get helpful information http://www.16ga.com/forum/

Thanks for the post.I am shooting a 12 ga. and have a fairly long list of low pressure ammo out availible.

What I don't know is what payload and velocity are really needed for ruffed grouse and wild pheasant. I have one friend who pheasant hunts and he uses turkey loads with #5's. Personally, I think he is crazy and over-doing it a little, but then I have no real-world experience.

Will the 7/8 oz loads kill grous relaibly? Will the 1oz loads relaibly kill wild pheasants? If not, what are responsible minimums? I REALLY hate crippling birds.

Thanks!

RST has 1 oz. 5s and 6s and is happy to mix and match case lots that go for $85.
GameBore 2 1/2" 1 oz in English 6s (US 7s) ALSO $85/case
PolyWad Vintager 7/8 oz 6s are $85/case
B&P now offers F2 Sub Sound and MB Light in 12g. Though not low pressure, the High Pheasant load is for 2 1/2" guns and has been highly recomended by users https://www.bandpusa.com/Shopping/index.php/cPath/65?osCsid=c9571b2879874c7f66f54584329dbe66
Italian 5s are sorta US 5 1/2s

Here's some good threads discussing payload and shot size for wild birds:
http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=186&start=15
http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=945
http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=192
http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2067

Didn't wish to add the 'skunk squirtin' matches' that these questions always lead to over on SS BB. Grouse take alot less killing that wild pheasants and yes, 7/8 oz will certainly kill them if you pick your shots.

I also went back through these threads to put together a rough 'poll' as to shot size and 16g loads used for pheasants. Everybody pretty much agreed ANY load will kill a pheasant if you can shoot them in the head, the problem is the late season and going away bird AND everybody agreed you need to adjust the load to the circumstances. Most everybody also agreed that wild pheasants are such a prize (gift) that we are obligated to use loads that will reliable kill them dead in the air.

mod11rem- 1 1/8 4s
Dr 16g- 6s
16GG- 1 oz 6s to 1 3/8 4s
Larry Brown liked B&P 7s and 6s and Kent Upland
TJC- 1 1/8 Super-X and esp. Fiocchi GP in 6s
SquareLoad- 5s
Cedar 16-5s
brdhnt- GPs 5s
Longwalker- 1 1/8 5s
jparkers- 1 oz 6 to 1 3/8 4s
Wolfchief- 1oz 6
JC Morella- 1 oz 5s and 6s
NE- 1 oz 71/2 and 6
kb- 5s

Marc, I've never hunted pheasants with a 12 ga. Most of the pheasant hunting I have done has been on pen raised birds and I have shot hundreds of pheasants using a 28 ga with 7 1/2', 8's, and 9's. These were all over a pointing dog, all shots no longer than 25 -30 yards. Every once in a while because of angle I would get a crippled bird but not lost because of the dogs. Have shot wild pheasants in South Dakota using a 20 ga with reloads in #6, and #7 1/2's. A little different scenario there, many, many birds, getting up all over, longer shots. Went and bought some 3" shells in #6, because we couldn't find 2 3/4" # 5, or #6's in a heavier load. The 3" shells did the trick, and in the shooting didn't notice the recoil much in my 6 lb.4 oz. 20 ga 626E. That was the last time I used them and still have some left.
For grouse, have only killed a few, because of area, but used a 20 ga. with 7/8 oz of 71/2"s or #8's.
In my opinion a 12 ga. with 1 oz of #5, or #6's in a low pressure load would do over pointing or close flushing dogs for wild pheasants. Later in the season as birds are more warey, you might have to break out the heavier artillary. As for the grouse 7/8 oz with #71/2's would be fine in a low pressure load.

Marc -
If you're going to use a 12 ga, buy some Win or Rem International Trap loads - they may be a little hard to find, but they're just what you want in a 12 ga. 7/8 oz. plated Cu or Ni) , high-antimony shot, high velocity but low recoil. All you need for grouse under the conditions you describe. KBM

Guys, In South Dakota hunting, the weather can change from one extreme to another over night (hell in a couple hours) and there is no way I'm going to shoot wild pheasants with one oz. shot. If you want to kill them in 25+mph winds you have got to get some lead out there. I use 3 inch in open chock barrels. 90% hit the ground hammer dead.

Marc,

I find 1 oz of 7 1/2 shot in 12 gauge or 7/8 oz of 7 1/2 shot in 20 gauge at around 1200 fps works well for grouse for me. I find 7 1/2 shot works a little better than 8s.

That said, hunted late Decemeber with a guy and his big running dogs. For late season he liked 1 1/2 oz of 6s in his first barrel and 1 3/4 oz of 5s (both turkey loads - max drams)in the second barrel for late season grouse. I thought it was excessive, but he got 3 grouse that day and I didn't get any. FWIW.

tim

Marc:

I kill many, many ruffed grouse with 3/4 oz., 1150 fps. 20 bore handloads. Early season I load them with lead #8 or 9 later I use plated #7 or 7-1/2. I shoot them out of guns bored cylinder and improved cylinder. If you start pacing off your grouse kills what you'll find at least here in the Lake States is that most are killed at 25 yards or less.

When I shot a 12 bore, 2-1/2" I used either the Vintager loads from Poly-Wad or the RST Maxi-Lite's. You will be glad to be living where you are over the next 4-5 years.

Marc: I lived in the heart of grouse and woodcock country in Michigan for most of my life. Thinking about moving back again.

Many may disagree, but a 2 1/2" 12 bore is fine for grouse and 25g to 28g with a number 7 or 7 1/2 is plenty. I have many good friends who still live in that neck of the woods, shoot English guns with 2 1/2" bores in a variety of guages. They all can carry on lengthy conversations about the best shell, load etc, but that is all part of the beauty of bird hunting - telling tales or discussing "what's best"

To be honest after hunting the gray ghost for 50 years I am not so sure it makes a heck of a lot of difference.

As you probably recall you have to move a number of them to get a bird. A number of friends keep very reliable records, and along with myself we would suggest it really does not matter that much what guage, shell load, type of gun, choke or position of the moon. You need to move 10 - 12 grouse to put one in the bag.

I will leave it to the plains folks to give you advise on wild pheasant. I have always used #6 and 30g in Southern Ilinos. On the other hand I have seen the darn things do a complete somersault after what seemed to be a hard hit, recover and keep going.

Enjoy the grouse this fall, it should be a farily decent season. The low end of cycle in Upper Peninsula was probably 2005. The Woodcock population is still pretty dismal in U.P.