doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Another "what loads" post, 20 gauge LC Smith?

Chamber drawings in Brophy's book Plans & Specifications for the L C Smith show chamber lengths to be exact length for the shell, no shortening with them. All of my 12 gauge Lefevers also have either 2 5/8" or 2 3/4", little doubt in my mind those with 2 5/8" chambers were intended for that length of shell. It is noted that SAAMI chamber specs from a time after the 2 3/4" shell had become standard in all three gauges allowed for a minimum chamber length of 2.614" in 12 gauge but 2 3/4" in both 16 & 20 gauges. It is my understanding this short chambering was due to a request from Trap shooters. Do we have any real evidence it was used in gauges other than the 12. Also do we have knowledge of earlier Parkers or Foxes with chambers shorter than a nominal 2 5/8" in length or were these short chambered guns all intended for the 2 3/4" shell. Inquiring minds want to know.

"It is my understanding this short chambering was due to a request from Trap shooters." Could you please elaborate Miller?

Turn of the century Live Bird and Inanimate Target shooters frequently used longer shells for additional wadding

The 'Machine Loaded' shells and components available in the 1895 Montgomery Ward & Co. catalog
http://books.google.com/books?id=zWel51IwQ2AC&pg=PA473&lpg#v=onepage&q&f=false
12g Winchester �Leader� and �Blue Rival� NPEs are offered in 3-inch length. UMC 12g Green �Trap� NPEs are offered in 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths.

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1897/VOL_30_NO_12/SL3012023.pdf
"Cast Iron Medal", emblematic of championship of America, and a purse of $200, was shot on Watson�s Shooting Grounds. R.O. Heikes (using a Winchester 1897 pump) won the match by killing 91 out of 100 birds, taking the Cast Iron Medal and the $200.
Grimm killed 87 out of the 100 birds, using an L. C. Smith gun, 3 1/4 drams Du Pont powder in a 3-inch U. M. C. Smokeless shell, for first barrel, and 3 1/2 drams Du Pont powder in a 3 1/4-inch U. M. C. Trap shell in second barrel, 1 1/4 ounces No. 7 chilled shot in both barrels.

Cashmore Pigeon gun marked 3 1/4" CASES. Unfortunately I do not know the chamber length.

Drew; I don't really recall where this came from, I am thinking it was stated here on this board a few years back. It was mentioned in specific regard to Parkers. It may well have included live bird shooters. It was stated to be that they perceived they got better patterns by this method of chambering. My real question though is was this practice carried out on 12 gauge guns for use with shells shorter than 2 3/4", does anyone have a gun which they perceive to have been intended for use with 2 5/8" shells which only has a 2�" chamber. Also does anyone have 16's & 20's of the era with 2 7/16" & 2 3/8" chambers respectfully. I have a post 1907 16 gauge Lefever with 3" chambers by measure. Though not marked I presume it was intended for use with 3" shells. Definitely both the gun & the shells would have been special order, not something picked up at the corner hardware.
Nash Buckingham wrote of his father having a Greener 12 gauge hammer gun with 3�" chambers in which they fired 3�" shells. This in the 1880's. So yes shells were available in an assortment of lengths & some of those old 3�" shells may well have ended up being fired in a gun having 2 5/8" chambers, but what I am interested in is what guns were actually, intentionally short chambered for the shell "Intended" to be used.

If the wood has been "glassed" at 6lb 10oz that gun should be able to digest occasional 70mm Nitro Mag or turkey load.