doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Short Chambered Fox 16

I just picked up a late Philly Sterlingworth 16 gauge. It had been someone else's project a good number of years ago and they got as far as removing the bluing from the barrels. Then work ground to a halt. Will require a little "massaging" to put it right.

My Utica SW 16 ga. weighs in at 6 lb 8 oz and this Philly SW 16 ga. comes in at 5 lb 14.5 oz.

Had it at the smith's yesterday, primarily for a barrel wall measurement as they are #3 barrels. They seem likely untouched. Bores are .665 & .666 and chokes are .021 and .040. However, the smith measured the chambers at 2 3/8". I had been expecting them to be 2 5/8". isn't that a bit short?

Researcher makes a good case that Parker and Fox guns were intentionally short chambered - about 1/8" less than the shell they were intended for. So a gun chambered for 2-3/4" shells would be 2-5/8" and a 2-9/16 would be 2-7/16". I have a Philly A grade 16 and a Philly XE 16 with 2-3/8" chambers.

Here is one of Researcher's posts about chamber lengths: Link

Another question always arises as to how the chambers were measured. Many modern day "Gunsmiths" will measure these chambers with a modern chamber gauge made to SAAMI minimum chamber diameter specs. The fly in the ointment is that all these old guns were not made to modern SAAMI specs. A chamber cut only .001" smaller than the diameter of that gauge will stop short by about 0.200" or a bit over 3/16". Most smiths unless they are very familiar with older guns & know to look further will simply declare it as short chambered by that amount, when quite often that is not the case at all.

I measured these with a wll thickness gauge and then a card and then a bore diameter gauge as I was puzzled. Sometime after that I read Researcher's post.

Thanks to both of you, Mike and Miller.

Miller while I have a lot of confidence in the skill of my smith, what you suggest about using a SAAMI spec gauge sounds likely. And I really appreciate the link, Mike.

Seeing as I was intending to shoot 2 1/2' though it, sounds like I should be okay. I'm guessing it's already had a whole lot of 2 3/4" run through it by previous owners who just assumed.

It begs a question besides the length what is the difference between light american game load and european made load in 65mm or 67mm case?

I have a Fox gun, 20 gauge, made in 1916 with chambers a hair over 2 1/2 inches. Can I shoot low pressure, 2 3/4 shells, such as RST?

Shortround

most RST's are 2 1/2

some 12's are 2" 10's are 2 7/8

You could shoot low pressure 2 3/4" shells in a Fox 20 that has 2 1/2" chambers. But if you're going to order RST's anyhow, you might as well get their 2 1/2" shells. Most people that shoot 2 3/4" shells in short chambers are experienced reloaders, and they're reloading to low pressures in their own hulls. SOME factory 2 3/4" shells are loaded to low pressures, and the ammo company (like RST) will tell you what those pressures are. But MOST American factory shells are only loaded to meet SAAMI (American) standards, and they can be higher pressure than what your gun was designed to handle.

Shortround, isn't travel back and forth to the mainland from Maud getting a bit dicey these days. Used to sail around there.

RST aren't available in Canada, BTW.