doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Checkering tools

This is a little off topic perhaps, but I'm thinking of trying my hand at checkering. Tools at Midway or Brownells seem to be mostly backordered. I suppose it must be a popular Christmas gift item.

But that aside, is there any particular tool makers to look for (or avoid)? Dembart, Gunline seem to be the two main players and the look pretty similar to me.

Of course, I have a habit of going off the beaten track so checkering like this suddenly appeals to me. I can't guess what the LPI is for that pattern or the length-width ratio, but I've gotta jump in somewhere. I have three stocks in need of checkering (Borchardt Schuetzen, lowwall field rifle, and a lever-action moose rifle).

I would sure be interested to hear the opinions of the types of tools, brands, sources, and types of checkering.



More at http://www.gunsinternational.com/Marlin-1893-Deluxe-32-40-caliber-1906.cfm?gun_id=100384119

For the moment the two companies you mentioned ARE the only game in town. For over 60 years the only maker of carbide tools supplied the craft...that has been interrupted by death and taxes. Hopefully it will be resurrected soon. The style of checkering is called "flat top". To find the lines per inch use a ruler and count the lines in one inch! To find the angle...a protractor is great. It is not hard to do IF you are patient and read a lot before you start. Monte Kennedy's book is where I started and still pull it out to refresh my knowledge from time to time.

The checkering done on that stock was done by a riffler file. Problably a home made file with 75 degree sides and a small flat on the bottom. All surfaces cut.

Dennis thanks very much. That helps a lot. I'll have to hope that something happens very soon I guess.

I can't really measure the LPI for that rifle without dropping about $3k since I don't own it. But I do own that model of rifle so I might be able to find enough reference points in a picture to get some measurements and then do the math to scale the photo.

Monte Kennedy's book? Is there a source for recent printings? Or is this one of those multi-hundred dollar classics on ebay?

What is the title?

Thanks very much for you help.

Brent

Found the book. I will own it shortly.

I've used a set of Dem-Bart checkering tools for checkering repairs to various checkered panels for almost 50 years without a hiccup. I like their quality and simplicity.

For large re-checkering jobs I have a checkering lady who knocks it out for me and has been checkering for over 35 years.

This L.C. had badly damaged areas on each side of the grip panel from a gun rack of some sort. A large amount of steaming was required first to raise the panels. I then recut the damaged areas on each side and re-finished the stock.

I like W.E. Brownell tools in SanDiago,CA Also Jon Hosford is working on power and hand Carbide tooling.

The WE Brownell tools are listed as "discontinued" on Midway and I can't find them anywhere else. The company still googles but it just produces a generic direct and address. No company webpages. I wonder if they are still in business.

Meanwhile Gunline has only 2012 prices on its webpages and most suppliers are showing most of their Gunline parts "out of stock" as they are for Dembart.

I think this is going to be a problem.

Nice work Doug.

Brent
I too havebeen dabling in checkering. You can get a laayout scale from demi bart

It helps with you guigeline layout and measuring existing patterns
Jerry

I use the W.E. Brownell handles as you can change out the cutter heads easily on them. Plus you can use Dembart or Gunline on them. Simple set screw and slip fit pin. I wrestle with the tiny roll pin on the others. If you can find them (Full View Checkering Handle was/is the name) get them is my advise)

I still use a couple of Dembart style handles for things like the short V cutter used in tight places but that lasts a long time. The others can wear out a couple times over in doing one gun. I have a couple of the carbide single point tools from 25 yrs ago that are still going strong. I use them a lot to clean up old work. The dirt and grime in old work eats up the new tool heads quickly especially the Dembarts.
I like both Dembart and Gunline. Gunline cuts more aggressivly and I can resharpen those at least once. Dembarts finish cut smoother but wear fast. Each has a place. Neither are cheap anymore.
Stock a few extra. It's a bad feeling to not have a fresh one to finsh up a job and the one in the handle is as dull as a butter knife. I have a habit of keeping the 'dull' cutters as I remove them. I place them in pill bottles labled w/the LPI. More than once has a dull cutter from one of theose bottles proved to be much sharper than the last one I had to work with. Better than trying to make it to the end w/a dull cutter or waiting for replacements.

A lot of old work is done at 60d,,most checkering today is done at 90 degree. They used to sell 72 degree cutters but I don't see them anymore.
If you're recutting old work or restoring a stock on an older gun that had 60d checkering, use 60d. Recutting to 90d is quick and simpler but the results stand out like a bright light and anyone familiar with the original product won't be happy with your 'restoration'. Neither should you.

24 and 26LPI looks good on new work and most stock wood will hold it if it's of any decent quality. Finer checkering takes dense, close pored wood so the tiny diamond points don't crumble or disappear in a wood pore.
Many older utility grade guns were cut with coarse 14, 16, 18 LPI type checkering and left flat top. You have to mine the wood quite deep with the coarse LPI to get to the diamond points. It actually looks better flat top I think.
The finer the LPI,,the shallower the checkering is cut before it 'points up'.

Don't expect a new cutter to exactly match old work even if you read the LPI off of the work. Small almost unseen differences of a few .000" in the line spacing stack up as you recut. As you go on down the rows a couple thou becomes .020 after 10 rows and things go to pieces if you're not watching. Many old tools were hand made and often resharpened so they may not be the machine made exactness of today.

I use a thread TPI gauge to check the LPI on work more often than the plastic overlay type gauge. It's more accurate than the fat yellow lines of the Brownells plastic guage but each has a place. The thread pitch gauge needs a relativly flat surface to work on, bt that's not usually a problem either. There's not a whole lot of difference in the spacing of a line in a 24 LPI pattern to a 26 LPI pattern. Check and re-check before diving in w/a multicut tool.

I usually use a 3 to 1 diamond for new work. Sometimes feeling really artistic, I'll use a 3.5 to 1. Something around that ratio looks good. A simple cardboard cut out is all. Use up those business cards from all those people that bothered you.

I use an MMC to rough out the pattern usually. One cut each direction to about 1/2 depth. It still saves enormous amts of time. I've never been able or even tried to do the entire pattern with one but they say you can.
Carbide cutter is starting to dull again, so I hope a service becomes available again. Otherwise it's back to the original way.

I don't look for checkering work but have done a lot in the past. I still do it as needed in the restoration or upgrades I work on. I just finished a Fox upgrade and I think the checkering took as long as the engraving. At least my back feels like it!

On that Marlin lever action,,I'd have a hard time believing that the checkering and carving on the wood was factory. Crude would be my description. The LPI if I was to guess from the pictures is around 12 LPI. It looks done with a single point bent rifler tool and spaced by eye-ball methods,,not done w/ any sort of checkering tools to hold parallel and uniform spacing. Lines are all over the place. The forend is especially bad.
The carving cuts are smooth in some places, long sweeping cuts well done for what they are. Others were done w/difficulty and show it.

The checkering diamonds are actually squares. A 1 to 1 diamond that morphs into a shortened <1 to 1 near the ends of the pattern. That's just from not watching and keeping the lines straight.
I'd really doubt that the work was done by someone that did this for a living full time from the New Haven Marlin F/A Co wood room. If it is,,they really let one out the door that shouldn't have.
JMHO of course.

Kutter THANKS! There is a some useful stuff there. Lots of it actually. Particularly, that some handles can use other heads.

I have been trying to figure out if Brownells tools are still being made. So far, I can't find any currently for sale.

The more I look at that Marlin stock the more I have to agree, it was not professional but I thought it was at first. The butt is much better than the forearm and even that has issues. I sort of like the more amateurish carvings sometimes - call them folk art I guess. I did some careful measuring of the lever in the photos and then scaled it to the image on the screen to measure the lines right at 10 lpi. (with some variation where they aren't straight).

I enjoy trying new things and even in the trying to prepare for new things. In this case hunting down tools might be harder than it was to find a square-bolt Marlin 1895 rifle. But I have all winter - at least.

How bad the butchery becomes, only time will tell.

Brent