doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Now I understand the fuss about Doubleguns

Hairy, what a nice story. Thanks.

Fox, I'm no fan of the unearned class system over there. I like NA. Was just thinking Christmas was a day for making nice, but you had a very good point. It would soon be Boxing Day.

I have four Fox and two Win M12. They won't be the last.

I am shocked and horrified:

In the early 1980's you were no doubt using lead shot, thereby raping and destroying the environment, you killed poor defenseless ducks as if they were created for mankind's benefit and you treated misty like a dog.

Nice story.

Foxy, a lot of American built guns were also blown to pieces with those blue pill loads, all except the L C Smith that is.

No surprise to me- If you read the Houchin's book on the great LC Smith shotgun- the chapter about famous Smith clientele- you'll see fotos of John M. Olin's 12 Specialty grade- He wouldn't have one if it went to flinders like the Purdey did after 60 blue pills- He also had a lot of respect for the great Ithaca NID- or else why did he approach Lou Smith- the "Head Fred" of Ithaca Gun in the early 1930's and ask him to re-build the great NID for the 3.5" 10 gauge (Elmer Keith's favorite pheasant gun)--

There are Scads & Scads of us shooters out here who have received many, many years of pleasure from some of those guns which didn't stand up to all those Blue Pills & frankly we don't really care whether Olin liked them or not. There are bunches & bunches of them which I wouln't trade even for one of them 21's if'en I had to keep it & use it, much less pay the inflated price for one of them.

I am glad you and Canvasback enjoyed the story. Sometime I will have to start a thread on old dog stories. I had many wonderfuls outings with Misty and four of them stand out and are worth jotting down

As for the lead shot. When the lead ban was being discussed in the sporting magazines and exposees' on the fallibilities of steel shot were being printed, I was rather vocal locally and perhaps somewhat unpopular with my opposition to the idea. Quite frankly, I have been of the opinion for a very long time that the banning of lead as projectiles in shotguns would lead to the same in rifles and handguns and thus create a gun ban by the removal of a what is likely the cheapest, most ballistically efficient material for said projectiles and thus the anti-gun crowd wins! I have mentioned this many times over the years and was told, "your crazy, they can't do that!" Many of you might have noticed the shutdown of the last lead smelter in the good ol' USA recently. Perhaps even learned of no lead pellets for your airgun and you are relegated to use other less efficient materials. Perhaps you have even noticed some states calling for banning lead in .22 rimfire ammo and lead can no longer be used for centerfire rifles in some states proposals. Even the Army has annouced it will be using "green" ammunition exclusively by 2018. Sadly, I am afraid I saw this comming and few listened then. So, HELL YES I WAS USING LEAD SHOT! Although the feather cutting qualities of nickel or copper plate on lead shot was sort of new back then some of us jumped at the chance to buy a few bags of that shot and experiment with it. Hence, my favorite duck and pheasant load in the 20 gauge: 1 1/8 ounce of #5 coppper plated chilled lead shot in a 2 3/4" Federal case with a little bit of Hercules blue dot with appropriate wadding. If I can't use lead, I guess I am still boycotting the whole thing!

As a side note on Misty, she survived Parvo Virus at ten years old and could hunt all day for four days without tiring until then. My dad took her out hunting the first time because I was working and she retrieved a Canada Goose that weight twelve pounds across a picked cornfield at the age of 15 weeks. She was too small to pick it up and could only drag it by the wing. Dad told me how determined she was with that goose. He said she would stop and look back to see how far she had to go and he would back up a few steps and she would look back again, when she turned her head to start dragging that goose again dad would back up a few more steps, doing this dance 5 or 6 times before he thought she proved her mettle. She also had very thick long hair, she was not a field bred ESS but rather from show stock, and she loved being outside. Back in some of those years we had some rather cold winters. I can remember one moring when it was -27 degrees F. and one stretch had the high for the day was -18 degrees F. for almost a fortnight. I would always want to have her inside when it got cold and really wanted her in the house all the time. She would start panting, then laying down by the front door where the cold air would steal its way in, then she would whine until you let her out. I would open the door and she would dive headfirst into a snow drift and roll around for a couple of minutes and then she would go to the kennel to stay in the doghouse overnight. She really didn't care how cold it was, that still amazes me. Use mere mortals are always preferring comfort in old age ... I guess the cold was comfortable to the old girl.

DISCLAIMER: I apologize to any and all those that might be ********* that cannot tolerate any opposition to your current chain of thought about what is right, wrong, or inappropriate for fear of finding out you are wrong on the topic at hand. If this knowledge causes you great distress and you find life is no longer worth living because you are not as smart as YOU thought YOU were and YOU have an urgent need to find a way out, please remember to GO GREEN. Thank you for your attention in this matter.

Why on earth couldn't the idiots who write our game laws have been as sensible about the use of lead as New Zealand is? Here is a quote from this year's NZ regs (remember NZ is one of the "greenest" countries on earth):

Use of Lead Shot Prohibited
5.1 No person may possess lead shot, or use lead shot, while hunting or killing waterfowl within 200 metres of open water, with any gun using a 10 or 12 gauge cartridge. Non toxic alternative shot may be used, including steel.

Anywhere else it is legal and probably preferred since it results in far less crippling and is much cheaper.

OK- fair point, Suh. I would rather have a Ithaca 12 NID than a Model21 in 12 gauge- same barrel length, chokes, trigger(s) and ejectors-- As the NID is as strong as the M21 and not as waaaay over priced as the M21, IMO. But now John Olin. You live in the volunteer State- ever heard of Nash Buckingham? Sure you have. He and John were best friends. Do you have a fine bird dog or two perhaps? Thank John Olin for all the millions he donated to the Cornell Veterinary School of Medicine in his lifetime- so your English pointer will stay healthy and be your best friend afield after buuurds- as well as by your hearthside at home--Anything associated with John Olin is a good thing, even the overrated M21 he championed..

I redeemed it from Purgatory: