doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 10 Gauge Manufrance Ideal with Lunette triggers

I picked up a decent 10 gauge Manufrance Ideal with "Lunette" triggers recently. I was drawn to it because of the similarities it has to a round action game gun from an outward appearance. It really is a very interesting design.

I was surprised when I found out it was a 10 gauge. It handles like a light 12. It has 31.5 inch barrels and weighs about 7.5 pounds. the chambers are 3.25 inches and it is proved for smokeless from what I can read on it.

I tried to learn more about it and there was some good information here and on Geoffroy Gournet's Darne USA Forum but there was no information to be had about them in 10 gauge. Literally there was not one post or thread about the model in 10 gauge. I found zip, nada.

Other than the stock being shorter than I would like, it handles really well and I'm going to take it grouse hunting this week stoked with some 7.5 shot RST's that I bought at Hausman's Hollow earlier this year. It should be a blast.

Anyway, if anyone can point me in the direction of any information about these, specifically in 10 gauge I'd appreciate it. I'm curious to know if there is anyway to find a production breakdown by gauge. I've seen the year of manufacture chart and production number by serialization but nothing gauge specific.

It's handling qualities are really growing on me. All in all a really good find.

Roger

Roger, I have a 12 gauge Ideal and have wanted a 10 gauge (and a 16 as well). I watch the Naturabuy auction site in France where at any given time there is 80 to 120 Ideals for sale. In two years of watching I have only seen one 10 gauge. They made them but not many!

I am not a fan of the lunette triggers but want the gun for hunting sharptails with light 10 gauge loads. Given the way my 12 handles I guessed the 10 would be a pretty light and good handling 10 gauge for that purpose.

I have the book on Ideals....have not been able to find anything there or anywhere about production breakdown by gauge.

Would love to hear how it is in the field.

Here is better picture of the barrel flat information and water table.

A nice find. A rare find. One thing about the Ideal in regarding balance, many ideals are a bit butt heavy and have balance points about 1 1/2" or sometimes more behind the hinge pin. Probably due to the sling mechanism and guns with shorter barrels will obviously be more effected. All of the ideals I've owned gave been a bit ass heavy, I still shoot them ok though.
The Ideal is a striker fired gun driven by massive coil springs, double gun enthusiast will almost always notice that the trigger pulls will usually feel heavier than they actually are and have a very "spongy" feel to them. This bothers some people, others never notice. Even tuned triggers will have some sponginess and "creep" to them.
Ideal serial numbers can be misleading too. When the parts were made and stamped with their numbers doesn't necessarily indicate when the gun was assembled. Example: parts made in the late 30's, the gun assembled and completed in the 50's. Parts sat on the warehouse shelves until an order came in for a build. I got this information sometime ago from a gentleman I was corresponding with in France who was very knowledgable in all things Manufrance.
Enjoy your "new" gun!

According to my proof book, it's proofed for 16,356psi, sweet!
Steve

Might want to be careful with with that suggestion, as we can't tell for sure if it was proofed with powder S, from 1896 or powder S2 from 1898. A few of the powders from that era had a tough time making the 12,000 psi minimum set by the Brussels convention, and all but powder T were gone by 1914 as proof powders, but, still available commercially. Either form of powder S is semi-smokeless, and not a true smokeless powder.
I wouldn't be in a hurry to feed hot loads to any Lunette Ideal, it is an old gun, for sure.


Best,
Ted

Barrel ed-that should be "action" flats have "Fusil Canardier" on them, or so I seem to make out from the second pix, Roger. That is to say, "Waterfowl (Duck) gun." Long barrels underscore that. Double St. Etienne proof means stout enough. Looks as if 75mm proofmark for chamber length, that's just under 3 inches.

I've a 7lb 2 oz 10-gauge Darne R-16 so made and use 2-7/8 inch cartridges which you can buy commercially (RST) or make by cutting down 3-1/2" primed Federal hulls and loading yourself.

Best of the Season, Tim

Roger, the re-inforcing strapping that runs along the side of the stock from the receiver back is a relatively uncommon feature with Ideals, although I don't know if it was more common on 10 gauges.

That is quite a find !

"Touche", Tim.
This is a duck hunting model #10R which was made in 1903, 1904 and 1905.
The SN indicates 1904.
Note the reinforcing straps on the sides which were only used on the heaviest proved guns such as double rifles and Paradox.
The S powder was used for proving because it gave higher pressure than T.
4.29 gram of S powder and 45 grams of lead is quite a load.
The service load is 4.0 grams of J and also 45 grams of lead.
In 1910 ( my closest catalog), the 10C/R was sold for 380FF and was designer to "resist indefinitely to the violent strain induced by the smokeless powders". It had 80cm barrels, like this one.
There was no loaded ammunition available from the factory. Only empty shells were available in 75mm hulls (which this gun was also chambered for, I think...).
Considering that the gun was supposed to be used in adverse environment, I would say that it is quite a find as few were made and even less survived.
Best regards,
WC-