doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Need some advice on an Ithaca SXS

I have an Ithaca SXS circa late 1924 from the serial number. It was given to me 50 years ago and I have hunted, shot trap, skeet and sporting clays with it. In the Spring 2013 I had a problem breaking the breech after firing a round, single or both barrels. Took it to our local gunsmith who could find nothing wrong other than firing pin areas were very dirty. Went back on the range, same problem. Second gunsmith, could find nothing wrong. I am aware of articles about todays higher pressure loads and this era Ithaca SxS. Had it checked for barrel and receiver issues, again nothing. Any suggestions? P.S. I live in South West Virginia near Bristol, a good gunsmith referral would be appreciated. Thanks
Bill G

Could be that the firing pins are not retracting, and hanging up in the primer indents. Could be worn or bent cocking levers. Do the fired shells show drag marks in the primers? Some times a polishing of the lower sides of the firing pins will cure this, if the pins have a roughness to the tips. Try 600 grit.

Most likely you have been shooting ammunition manufactured using "soft" primers. Some promotional load have caused this problem in vintage double guns. Check the primers of some fired shells for darg marks on the primer and then try some shells from different makers and see if this cures your problem.

Both posters have good points. Call Gunter Pfrommer, 540 484 5555. He is in Rocky Mount, VA, just up the road from you.

This may seem a strange suggestion but it has cured similar problems in three different older double for me. A dirty chamber will make opening the breech very difficult. Try some good solvent, a chamber brush and then cut some Scotchbrite green pad to form a chamber fitting wrap on your cleaning rod. Wet the scotchbrite with some solvent and work the chamber over thoroughly. Cut new pieces and repeat the process before wiping well. None of the chambers I had appeared dirty but they were. I think that over time the plastic hulls make deposits until eventually the chamber plastic and hulls form an adhesive bond when fired. If this isn't the problem it cost you nothing to try it. The Scotchbrite will not harm the barrel - a tip I was given by a well known custom barrel maker for the muzzle loading builders.

Does this answer make sense? With heavy hammer springs as used in Ithaca's the firing pin indent would be about the same depth whether primer is soft or hard metal. Wouldn't soft primer let the firing pin drag through easier than with primer made of harder metal?

I'd check to see if the problem may be that the hammer(s) are not retracting quick enough as the bbls are unlatched and tipped downward.


The cocking motion should instantly start to retract the hammer(s) off of the Ithaca's separate firing pins,,take the pressure off of them. (
This should be in any SxS,,separate f/pins or not).
There is no rebounding of the hammers so when they're down,,they are down hard on the pins and therefore the primers.

To see if the cocking linkage is worn and not taking up immediately,,dry fire the gun,,hold horizontally and open the top lever. Let the barrels down gently of their own weight till they engage the cocking linkage. You'll feel it stop after the initial opening.
I'd bet the breech is open more than a few .000 to perhaps a 1/32" or so.

That's amt the shell is dragged with the pin imbedded in the fired primer under mainspring pressure before the hammer is finally retracted to relieve that pressure.
The hammer(s) should begin to retract as soon as the bbls begin to lift from the breech.

The soft primer/hard primer thing does make a difference in that it will appear to cure the problem if the right ammo/primer is hit upon.
I just haven't quite figured out which makes it better and which makes the condition worse.
I've seen the charts and stats about which primer is which, but I've seen lot's of shotguns that have made the problem go away or at least get better,,and there doesn't necessarily seem to be any straight away choice of ammo. What works in one, will make it worse in another.
In any event, it doesn't take much to try a few different brands to find out.


Check firing pin length, shape also. Pins that are too long can be driven too deeply into primers. They can hang up then even if the cocking linkage is fine.
They don't need to be anything more than .045.
Squared points and sharp edges just add to any extra effort needed to extricate them from fired primers.

Just some thoughts to add to whats already been posted.

First of all, welcome on your first postings

Here is an easy check, buy a box of Remington Premier Target ammo or Winchester AA Featherlite or RST ammo and see if you still
have the issue.

If not, it is an ammo issue

Mike

p.s, you never mentioned gauge or chamber length, what are they?
My Flues 20 gauge has short chambers

Bill G73,

Some excellent responses and suggestions have already been offered. I thought I would add my $0.02 worth.

I have an early A grade Fox 12 gauge. Have had the gun for 45 years and used it often years ago for hunting with no problem. I recently started shooting sporting clays and started hand loading low pressure light loads to save wear and tare on the gun and me. The gun was very hard to open after firing reloads with Winchester primers. It was suggested I use harder Remington primers. I did and that solved the problem.

If you can get a couple factory loaded Remington STS's or Gun Clubs to try, that would answer the primer question.

Additionally, with the hammers down, the firing pins extend into the standing breech about 0.070 inches. I have an early 12 gauge Fox Sterlingworth 12 gauge and those firing pins extend into the breech about 0.062 inches. The Sterlingworth opens fine with either Winchester or Remington primers. So the extra length firing pins contributes to my problem.

Additionally #2, on my early A grade Fox that had the opening problem, it also seems to have tight chambers. With the barrels off, some ammo does not drop cleanly into the chambers. They will go in with some extra push but just don't drop in. That could contribute to the hard opening after firing. I use a MEC Sizemaster for loading my 12 gauge hulls. I size my reloads for the early A a liilte on the tight side to help with that quirk.

So you have some things to try. Hope it is something simple so you can get your Ithaca back out shooting.

Jolly