doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Buying a top tier English gun with new barrels

This is tricky and I think Montana has given a good answer. UK auctions frequently offer "action and stock only" of guns having barrels beyond reproof (usually thin or damaged). The estimated prices of these guns appears to make them a bargain. However, one must be very careful what the gun will be worth if rebarreled. Sometimes the original barrels can be released to a gunmaker for repair, in which case sleeving or lining is an option.

So, Mike, to address your question a bit ore directly, lets assume that your A&N is an original quality grade 3 (about like a Scott Monte Carlo "B") and in current condition of heavy use, but no abuse. BV3-OQ3-CC$ = $4200. As "action and stock only", maybe $500. I'd say the new barrels have about equal value to the gun as good original barrels. However, as guns are found of higher and higher current condition, the new barrels subtract from originality and become a deduct. Were you to find a gun similar to yours in pristine condition, BV3-OQ3-CC1 = $10,500. Now, suppose we find the pristine gun that had the barrels run over by the "pickers-ups'" truck the first time it was out hunting and the owner was so utterly disgusted that he simply put it away (properly wiped and preserved) and it has just now surfaced. OK, do we sleeve it or make new barrels? What is it worth sleeved and what is it worth with new barrels? Howz about some opinions?

Rocketman - over a good whisky, perhaps!

There is an American classics frame of mind that only originals will do.
This doesn't hinder the handsome English gun.
Barrels by another, if well done, keeps the gun in the woods.
...and this is what they do best - lets the boys feed on the pristine Vhe - not rare - but overly done.

LG - as current condition goes up, so does the price. As original quality goes up, so does the price. The price of pricy guns is impacted by such things as replaced barrels and restocking. Brit guns are not an exception. I agree that lower priced guns, which will be of lower CC and/or lower OQ, will be much less impacted by such changes. Indeed, we arrive at a point of OQ and CC where restoration may well improve the value. But, it is very difficult to actually improve the resale value of a restored gun to more than the price of the gun plus restoration costs - American, Brit, or Continental.

The presence of barrels on agun by a maker other than the one on the locks IS a detrimental factor in selling price.

A Boss with new barrels by Boss will sell for considerably more than a Boss with new barrels by Clive Lemon.

A new set of barrels by Boss will cost you £10,000

A new set of barrels of the same qualuity by another barrel maker will cost you around £4,500.

The best sleeving you can get will cost £1,500 by the time you have paid for everything, a decent sleeving job can be done for £850.

Lining will cost you £1,500.

It is very difficult to re-coup the cost of this as an economic proposition.

However, if you are agunmaker, you can. Consider that Atkin Grant and Lang are buying up all the old actions they can. they can re-stock and re-barrel the guns and put the maker's name on the new barrels. The barrels cost them trade prices but they can charge retail for 'maker's barrels.

The result, they can buy an action for £3,000 re-barrel it for £3,500 using their own men, re-stock it for £2,000 using their own men, fully service and re-condition it as incidental. Sell it for £15,000 'as new' Profit = £6,500.

You buy the action for £3,000, pay £4,500 for new barrels (no maker's name on rib, re-stock at cost of £2,500 including wood. You have paid £10,000 and would struggle to get that for the gun.

In the real world of hi-ended Brit guns, the average guy's London sidelock has not a lick of case color.
Thats okay, most could give a hang as these are not judged so much by this.
...and frankly, the average Vhe owner is more swayed by this.
High original condition buyers of London's guns, are like the guys who study the fraction of seconds after the big bang.
There ain't many around this bbs!

Lg - there are enough that this is going to remain a very competitive market. Further, there seem to be more buyers in the $15,000 to $30,000 than I would have supposed. modern communication/information seems to have made a lot more people aware/comfortable with buying "pricy" guns of all origins. Also, there seems to be quite a bit more wealth chasing the surviving samples. LG, do you think there is more than twenty fold price spread in a wall hanger level SW and one near pristine?

Rocketman, maybe I shoulda tried harder in school, as I'm having trouble with all the numbers you toss about.
There's not a drop of bean counter in my DNA - and I've taken guns that were advertized as being much more than what they've turned out to be.
I go about things different, prehaps?
A scratch and a blemish warms my blood.
I dislike pristine, and perfect things.
I'm a sucker to my own whims!