doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com What's been on your watch list

Kornbrath is an unusual name and one way Michael investigated things that interested him was to look up people with the same name in the last town or city any artisan was known to operate from. He'd then try and trace descendants in that city to find out what they knew. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The longer the delay the harder the job will be. It's hard work but its often the only way things can be found out. Investigation is never easy, but you may just get lucky.

Harry

As I recall, some of Kornbrath's drawings and records are in the Cody museum. MP had some also. Many were offered for sale at the Maryland Arms Collectors show many years ago.

well, here are some more additions, the Poulin Antique Auction
had a Niedner Krag and an Owen, any thoughts about either?

Owen


Niedner

I was bidding on another auction, so I missed out on the Owen. I thought it would go for more, but I have an Arnold Griebel fully engraved .270 Owen Mauser done much nicer, that cost about 2 times as much, so if I extrapolate the one that went for $2200 w auction/add ons to mine, it was not all that good a buy. I bid on the Niedner but dropped out, when I began to think, I already had a Niedner 7X57 with Shelhamer stock and Model B Sporter Action and 4x Noske Scope, I rarely shot or hunted with and the .25 Krag caliber bothered me.
All in all the priced were high. JMHO

I watched both the Owen and Niedner, bid on both until they got to the point that to continue seemed to be a bit too much. I agree that overall the prices seemed high. But, I guess someone thought they were worth it. There's always the philosophy of "you didn't pay too much, you just bought it early". I'm just such a tightwad that I usually wind up buying them "late" or not at all. I thought there were a couple of decent buys on some of the later customs for my .02

Thaine

Did the bidders possibly think the Owen was a fake?

"Did the bidders possibly think the Owen was a fake?"

Yes I did, and that tempered my bid. I bid as if I was wanting a custom stocked rifle with the features I could see. If indeed it was a true Owen then that was a bonus. The name looked to be cut, and I am not experienced enough to know if it was real or fake. I have only held one Owen to examine, although I did get to see it at 3 different shows. When you price a reasonably figured blank and consider the cost of a decent stocking job by even an unknown smith along with the other features, I am comfortable with the price that it and the Stiles guns brought. When you start adding the cost of the parts up, there isn't much for the labor. It was consistent with what I see around the country. There is that certain element of risk to any internet purchase, or even face to face at times, that a fake is involved.

Now that you've opened the ball, is it real or do we know? What features would lead you to suspect it being fake? I'm not questioning your judgment, I readily admit to being a novice at the custom world of guns. I was late to the party and am trying to learn as fast as I can, and not have to pay too much for the lessons!

Thaine

"Did the bidders possibly think the Owen was a fake?"


Eightbore: I was not convinced it was a fake but the barrel was only marked with his name. The Owen rifles I own and have owned, all had a second address line of some type. However I seemed to remember seeing some authenticated guns in the past, that were marked with only his name. The deciding factors for me [had I bid], would have been twofold. 1. Unadorned and somewhat "plain Jane" Owen rifles have not been bringing more than the $2200 to $2800, on sight unseen and no return auctions lately. 2. As I said earlier, one of the hardest lessons I had to learn AS A MODEST COLLECTOR was, "BUY THE BEST GUN YOU CAN, AT THE BEST PRICE YOU CAN". My earlier answer was not an attempt to brag but was merely to show that, if you are lucky and blessed, to have the money to spend and that is a big if! The rifle I bought, though it cost double what this one went for, I believe mine was really a better buy. Especially given it had extensive Arnold Griebel engraving [Mountain Sheep scene with French Gray Silver contrast floorplate and full action [rose and scroll] coverage, French Walnut w/ better checkering, G&H mount and a better scope. It also was an estate piece, that had hardly been used, handled or fired, since it was made in 1947. I believe the recent gun, WAS A BARGAIN but only by approx. $700. The thing to remember however is, this will always be a beautiful, well made, crafted, work of art by Owen, but it will also, always be a somewhat entry level, modest rifle. Don't fall into the trap of just buying the "name", there has to be substance behind it, especially when you start paying large sums, for these guns. JMHO Jerry

Jerry makes very valid points,especially the BGBP analogy, I followed that philosophy when collecting Win. lever-guns and it stood me well. Those very thoughts weigh in when I am bidding on something like this "Owen". With limited access to shows (I live in nowhere Eastern NM, I rely on the net for a source, but probably approach some of these with too much caution.

Jerry, other than already owning a Niedner, was there anything else that turned you or anyone else off on this one. The 25 Krag didn't bother me, I am a fan of the quarter bore and am building a 25 Ackley Krag on a Siamese action.

The R.G OWEN bbl marking has the look of the letters originally very lightly stamped into the steel. Then gone over with a graver to deepen them and even connect the parts where the stamping was incomplete in a few places.

It could be a re-cut done at the time of a re-blu of the bbl. The bottom bar on the E was left untouched w/the graver.
Polishing could easily make a stamping shallow and uneven.

Stamps have sometimes been used as a sort of layout for lettering,,to be purposely gone over by hand to make them appear as completely hand cut. Done lightly so as to provide guidelines and initial depth to the cuts. But not imprinted so deeply that the letter(s) can't be adjusted slightly by line width changes with the hand graver afterwards.

I'd almost think something else was imprinted on the bbl in the same area, just below the Owen marking and it was peened out and polished off first.
The discoloration in the blue is common from the compaction done to the steel when doing that. But it's not a 100% sure fire finger pointing condemnation that something was done there. Pictures and lighting alone can be deceptive as well.
Enlarging the pic helps show a lot of the detail of course.

With all that, I don't know if it's an RGOwen or not.
Just some idle observations of the bbl lettering job.