doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com When is a sidelock not a sidelock???

N. Bob-

I really love the engraving on your gun. Do you have any more pics of the engravaing, particularly with less glare?

Do you know when it was made? I have not seen many older American guns engraved with a style that was appealing to me, but I love that one! Also, I am not usually a fan of rounded sidelocks, but that gun is very graceful to my eyes.

I agree - it makes no sense. It's a 'false term' in my book.

False or fake pins, however, are real - see below, from http://www.hallowellco.com/abbrevia.htm

"Sideplates - Decorative steel plates mounted to the sides of a boxlock break-open gun, inletted into the receiver and into the wood just behind it, to make the gun resemble a sidelock in appearance and to provide a greater area for engraving." Sideplated guns, usually, can be recognized by the lack of action pins visible in the sideplates (although some sideplated guns are built with fake pins)."

I have never heard or read the term "false sideplates". Sideplates would suggest the term "false sidelocks" to me.

Another beauty is ad copy 'full sidelock' (like there's any other kind). Apparently used to distinguish it from a gun with 'false sideplates'.

The caliber 45 'long' Colt has now been generally accepted in our nomenclature too, even though we have yet to find a 45 'short' Colt or even a 45 Special. This, of course, to avoid confusion with the 45 Automatic, which some insist upon calling 45 ACP for 'automatic Colt pistol' even though it's use is not limited to automatics, Colts, or pistols!

I'm trying to post a photo or two as it's probably better to let the photos do the talking. Sideplates are just that, and false sideplates have screws or pins added for style or possibly deceptive reasons, I do not know which. I have seen only one in 25+ years as a student of doubles. I have seen between 50 and 75 sideplated boxlocks and at least two "half sidelocks" or hybrid boxlocks (or whatever these semantic stickelers choose to call them). It's probably best if I let the photos do the talking (to OWD). Their posts made no attempt to address or further the understanding of another members posted question, just bold faced territorial nonsense. I am sorry to OWD, I was truly trying to address your question directly and with integrity, so if you are still interested in the correct answer to this posted question, just say so, and I will post photos of a semi-sidelock for you to see, and these other guys can fill their socks with manure and beat each other to death over the proper nomenclature.

Guns with sideplates that serve no purpose other than stying or decoration are not as uncommon as one would expect.

Decorative sideplates attached to boxlocks are well-known and have been widely used for a hundred years or more.

I have seen Dickson 'round action' trigger plate guns with decorative sideplates and the whole action made up to resemble a 'London type ' sidelock from the outside.

A lot of early 'transitional' hammerless guns from the 1870s and 1880s have side panels, some carry the lockwork and some do not.

The locks have to be mounted somewhere - they will be mounted either on the top strap (like the T.Woodward 1876 patent with spiral springs) or on the trigger plate (like the MacNaughton 1879 patent), on the lock plates, like all sidelocks or inside the action body, like the 1875 Anson & Deelry patent).

Clearly, only if the lock work is actually mounted on the lock plate is it a 'sidelock'.

It was not at all uncommon for gunmakers to work towards an external aesthetic which was the preferred 'mode' of the day, despite the internals being quite different. Note that the Akrill has bar-lock style lockplates but is a back-action. Quite different from, say, a Holland and Holland 'Dominion'.

There was of course the .45 S&W round made for the Schofield revolver which the US Army adapted in limited quantities. After this the US .45 round was shortened to fit either. The original cavalry load for the Colt contained 40grs BP, while the shorter version only contained 28grs. This of course was not Per-Se a "Colt" round so there is technically no "Short Colt". It may also be well however to note that many commercial "Smokeless" powder loads put up in cases marked ".45 Colt" were assembled in cases of the shorter S&W length. Considering how many rounds were made in both short & long versions it was simply a natural outcome to refer to the full length Colt round as the "Long Colt". The .45ACP incidently was designed to give ballistics using a small charge of smokeless virtually identical to the "Short" .45 black powder "Colt" round to be fired from the Browning designed "Colt Automatic Pistol". A whole line of cartridges "Introduced" in Browning designed pistols were given the ACP designation. This did not preclude their use in other firearms, anymore than naming the original .30-30 the .30WCF prevented other co's from adopting it.

A sidelock is not a sidelock when it is either a Lefever, or a Tobin. I'm sure there are others, but, these two come to mind.
Best,
Ted

Tedlock, now you've stirred-up a hornet's nest.
You've not removed your shoes when walking on the holy grounds of Lefever.

If it's a boxlock, it's not a sidelock.




IMO it might be more fair to say 'the term false sideplate is often mis-used on this side of the pond.'