doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com English game loads data 2 1/2" shells.

I think one reason there is no standard in the UK/Europe is that there is nothing like as much interest in velocity (in my experience anyway).

From my recollection, the manufacturers quoting velocities on the box is quite recent, and I don't think many buyers look anyway.

Generally here, buyers choose the cartridge size (usually 2 1/2 or 2 3/4 for 12 bore) shot size and shot load (often 28 or 30 grammes). Many have a preferred brand. As far as I know ALL cartridges sold are CIP approved, and of course virtually all UK guns are in current proof, so there is little thought of pressure or velocity.

Not sure how long ago it was, but formerly velocities in the US were quoted over 40 yards. The beginnings of these velocities over a longer range have their roots in when measurements were taken with a "Boulenge Chronograph". These instruments simply were not capable of measuring small enough time intervals to give accurate readings with close screen spacings near the muzzle. These often had the start wire attached to the muzzle itself, but the stop screen some distance down range. For shotshell velocities the 20-40 yard range was about the near & far limits of their range. Modern Chronographs capable of reading very short time intervals changed all this. The former though did prove to be quite accurate when used within its capabilities.

The Zutz article to which I referred earlier has him quoting Ed Lowry of Winchester as having learned that previous downrange velocity readings were inaccurate. Might be because of the older equipment you mention, Miller.

John and I concur. This has clearly caused a stir of interest and interesting information.

One thing i have observed from meetings with US owners of British guns, especially those who load their own shells, is a bit of over reversal of the old 'magnumitis' that is well known. It is that many feel that British vintage guns need to be loaded with very light, slow and ultra low-pressure shells.

Seeing what is commonly used in the UK in our classic guns might be a useful indicator of what they are made to withstand. any 2 1/2" shell sold in the UK will be safe to use in a gun proofed for 2 1/2" shells.

Some are more civilised than others, but a very wide range of suitable ammunition is available for this 'standard' British game gun chambering.

The problem for us, Dig, is that we don't know the pressures of your British loads--other than that they're within CIP specs. If they're well below the CIP maximum for a standard proof gun, that might mean pretty low pressure. If they're close to the CIP maximum, then they're not all that much different (about 800 psi) than our own SAAMI maximum of 11,500 psi.

I've never gone nearly as low as a lot of reloaders. I figure I'm safe in the 7-8,000 psi range, even figuring in some additional pressure for a longer hull used in a shorter chamber. And I've shot field loads of 7300 psi, 1 1/8 oz shot, 1200 fps--although not a lot of them--at pheasants. Seem to work fine (and produce very nice patterns) in vintage British doubles. But I've also never played around with anything older than 1920, except a couple sleeved guns from the 1880's.