doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Help with J.P. Sauer I.D.

Dave, the Fortunas (E. German Sauers) were made in a factory called Ernst Thalmann Werk. There's some speculation that the Fortuna, Merkel, and Simson guns were all made in the same factory. They were indeed all handled by the same E. German, state-run export consortium. You have to remember, this was under the old Communist system. And in fact, the Fortuna 147E looks exactly like a Merkel 147E, which looks exactly like a Simson 74E.

Larry,
Thanks for the info. If they are all essentially the same design made in the same factory were there any differences in quality between a Sauer or a Merkel or a Fortuna?

Thanks
Dave B

I just luv these things. They have good handling, some HAND TOOL engraving, and can digest American-made "semi-magnum" loads. Not all were made at "VEB werke". Wolf is a good example of this.
Don't worry, I see lots of weird stuff from DDR. Not too long ago I looked at made in DDR PP clone 6,35mm with Zella-Mehlis proofs.
I just picked up W-German #797.. with strange proof marks. Most carry German eagle mark + N + Ulm proof mark, but this one is different, and the mark is not that of Berlin, Kiel, Hannover, Munich or Cologne.

Dave, I think most people would say no difference in quality between E. German Sauers/Merkels/Simsons. Sauers and Merkels, I think, are a little pricier due to the name on the gun. Sometimes you can pick up a Simson at a bargain price because fewer people recognize the name.

Larry, thanks. Do you know of any good articles or books that would pertain to Sauers or East German guns? I think I got pretty lucky with this Sauer. But since I didn't even realize that there were East German made Sauers when I purchased this gun, I would just like to educate myself for future purchases.

Thanks,
Dave B

Article on Sauer by Clair Kofoed, Shooting Sportsman, Nov/Dec 01. Another in Double Gun Journal, summer 04. One on Merkel, with some reference to the E. German period, Shooting Sportsman May/June 95. I don't know of any articles that deal specifically with doubles made during the E. German period.

Any one want to guess why my Sauer (circa 1953)is marked with both Fortuna and J.P. Sauer on the rib???

Were there Fortuna guns made with just Fortuna on them??

Just wondering.

BTW, The Sauer artice that Larry speaks of is excellent!!

Bryan

'Fortuna' was made at Meininger Strasse to increase "shelf space" for Thuringian guns from German Democratic Republic.
The ones made in Holstein by Neo-Sauer had different names: like 'Royal', 'Royal Deluxe'. I seen a few with Weatherby name on them.

Larry,
thanks for the article references. I'll have to check them out. Since there is not an article dealing with doubles made during the East German period, perhaps it would make a good topic for someone who is a gun writer. *hint, hint* If you know someone who would fit that description.

Thanks again,
Dave B

Dave, Buxton's Guide has has a lot of catalog pages on East German stuff. I have a Fortuna that is a dead ringer copy of a prewar Sauer and is even marked J P Sauer and Sohns, Suhl. It was made in 1953, very nicely made 6 1/2 lb 12ga.

Jim A.