doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Lancaster shotguns...questions, and pics...

The thread about the Lancasater O/U shotguns made me realize how little I know about Lancaster shotguns.

Lefusil mentioned Grade A sidelocks and body action shotguns.

Does anyone have pics of these they could share or point me to? I would love to see some examples of these guns.

How many different grades of mutton-lock sidelocks did Lancaster make?

Are all the backaction, mutton-lock sidelocks Wristbreakers, or did Lancaster make them in several variations/generations?

Thanks a lot.

OWD

Don Masters' book on Atkin, Grant & Lang has two chapters devoted to the Lancaster family and it's gun making. I have below written a short pr�cis based on the book, which I hope is helpful.

Charles Lancaster's son Alfred set up his own business in 1859, in competition to his father Charles. When Charles died in 1878 his business was bought by HAA Thorn who, rather confusingly, passed himself off as Mr Charles Lancaster. Meanwhile Alfred was buying in guns from Webley & Scott for finishing. He made 'Civil Service' back action and 'Anglo Indians' models for India. He made a 'Grosvenor' model hammer gun for �14.15.0, though if you ordered front action bar locks the price went up to �15.10.0 The 'Grosvenor Hammerless' A&D non-ejector with Damascus barrels went for �15 guineas and an ejector model for �28.5.0 to order only. Alfred died in 1890 when both W&C Scott and WJ Jeffery became involved in building guns for the family. Two years later the books were taken over by HAA Thorn, who then controlled all Lancaster gun making.

Thorn went on to make many fine guns in the Lancaster workshops by Masters account. They included the 'Colonial Quality' top lever, self-adjusting, snap action hammer gun with Damascus barrels and rebounding back-action locks for �20; the hammerless version had automatic trigger safeties and automatic blocking safeties, with top or side lever, in three qualities for �27, �36 and �45. The 'Colindian' had smooth oval bore rifling to fire ball or shot. He went on to make guns for Annie Oakley.
Some C Lancaster guns have a .2 or .3 appended to their serial number, indicating that they were extra barrels or later 'fitter's in'. In the 1890s guns were being built for all pockets. B and C grade guns were often prefixed with 0 or 00 respectively. The quality of the mechanism in the B or 0 grade boxlocks was the same as in the best boxlock, but the polish and finish of the internal mechanism was not as fine as in the best gun quality. In the 00 guns a �limited use of machinery� was combined with �skilled hand labour�. Thorn called his boxlocks �body action� guns.

The 1893 price list has 2 best sidelocks, 3 hammergun grades (including 0 and 00), 2 0 grade body action & 2 �Colonial Quality� body action guns, the �Colindian� ball and shot and high quality Express ejector double rifles. Other combinations were also available. Phillipson & Nephew and BSA were the main barrel suppliers for cheaper grade guns.

In 1909 Thorn made what became known as the Lancaster Wristbreaker, based very much on Frederick Beesley�s 1884 patent single spring operating boxlock type action. Beesley built a small number of guns on this action though Thorn clearly had an arrangement with him to use the patent too, as Lancaster Wristbreaker boxlocks exist built in the 1880s. That patent had expired when Thorn developed it for sidelock guns, to begin with only his best guns, but later with variations to the design for other guns.

In 1910 Thorn was selling a Lancaster grade B boxlock over and under ejector gun for �55 guineas, a non-ejector version for �50 guineas and a grade A sidelock ejector for �75 guineas.

Tim

OWD

M W Reynolds has a very nice side-lever cocking Lancaster on his WS for sale. Nice photos of a back action. I searched the SN and was told by the current owners of the Lancaster records that it was purchased by a Lord Arbuthnot (?) mid-19th-century. Way beyond my means but I like to look and hope someday.

Vintage Doubles has mutton-chop lock Damascus on his WS. Looks nice and is a bit more reasonable, but still a " bridge to far."


I did not know they had A and B grade side locks I purchased a reproduction catalogue from Cornel but don' t remember seeing different grades on SLEs. I,ll have to go back and look again.

OWD,

The following DGJ's have very informative articles on Lancasters written by David Baker.

DGJ Volume 13 issue 4, winter 2002
"A new slant on the wrist breaker".
This article is about a unique Rogers conversion of the wrist breaker action

DGJ Volume 9 issue 3, autumn 1998
"They call it the wrist breaker"
This article provides a wealth of info including all the pertinent patents, etc. even has pics of a cut away wrist breaker. Talks in length about the various models and design changes over the years.

Chas. Lancaster model A "wrist breaker" SLE, Circa 1894.






Chas. Lancaster body action, circa 1896, 1 of a pair. The Lancaster body action is a completely different design from the typical A&D. All of the body action guns I've ever seen have the "0" prefix serial number. Indicating that they were possibly made outside the Lancaster factory. All proof marks are London.







Sugar tongs style forend


Action compressor cams

Lancaster mainsprings. Two styles, original patent and the later improved patent

Original patent. This is a "rough" spring, not completely shaped, fitted, drilled or tempered. The "hook" shape is what fits into the forend to facilitate cocking of the actions locks. This spring was found in a gunmakers parts bin. It doesn't look like much.....but it is rather complex.


The new model mainspring.. This one is obviously broken. Notice the different shape of the cocking portion of the spring. This design upgrade was part of a patent taken out by Thorn. #7242 of 1884. This spring was the left mainspring in my body action gun (1896)


SLE stock in letting. Extremely well executed, best quality.




SLE back action locks, again, extremely well executed. The shaping of the tumblers, etc is very high quality.

Here is a Body Action I had a while back. Beautiful gun... Really wish I had one in 20 or 28

Awesome. Very informative.

Thanks for the info, pics & references.

Nice guns, too.

OWD

Another interesting DGJ article, this one about a Lancaster body action double rifle conversion. Good pics, and a good read.
Volume 11 issue 4, Winter 2000
Pg. 91


Case label


Catalog ad

Hi
Can anyone help? I have a Lancaster back action sidelock with a single selective trigger SN 6237 I have not seen any other of this type. any info would be good
Thanks

I don't see many Lancaster SLE's, this one built in 1923, the same year as my Holland. I purchased it from a gentleman who inherited it from his father, he has never shot it and didn't know much about it. I'm hoping it fits me. I like 20's guns and I have a soft spot for Lancaster guns. I especially like the action shaping and engraving on this gun.

Nice gun. Lancaster produced some very nice guns. I have a wrist breaker, circa 1896, and a sidelever 12 hammer. The engraving on both was well executed.

I own a nice Lancaster percussion rifle and had another that was spectacular, the last I knew a board member here owns that rifle.

I'm not sure about in the 1920's but in the mid 1800's Lancaster guns and rifles were more costly than the offerings of Purdey. Very well made guns indeed.

OWD, I have a cased Charles Lancaster 'A' or Best SLE 12 bore mfg. in 1924 with 29" barrels and the Mount St. address, and IMHO, it compares with any London Best I've seen or owned in quality except maybe Boss. 14,4xx S/N, chopper lumps, wgt. 6 lbs. 6.5 ozs., with original 15 1/4" LOP stock and handles very well. I think they went out and were absorbed by A, G&L in the early 30's. I will post pictures if you can tell me how to do it on this site. Best, Sandlapper

Is it a 12/20?

My Lancaster is not a 12 /20, I did just pick up a Grant 12/20 though, actually a pair but one of them is junk.

I have a nicely made Lancaster Super 12 Self-Opening BLE. metal to metal fit is excellent. The action is smooth on opening and not hard closing.

Emailing Lancaster yielded it was made in the 1928.

I can e mail a pic but don't have pic hosting

A couple of years ago I had the opportunity to purchase a pair of Grants built on the 12/20 action. Is that not a trigger plate action and not a sidelock?

Mike;

The 12/20 is a side lock action.

Correct, the Baker patent, it has back action locks.

my Grant 12/20

I’ll get pics up for you. Pretty sure you know the drill, email is in my profile, etc.

Best,
Ted

Does anyone know of the location of this Lancaster?

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...wenty-quot--bsle-12.cfm?gun_id=100953766

Best regards,
JBP

I sent a pic to Ted

Yea:




Nice gun.

Best,
Ted