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Forums10
Topics38,938
Posts550,914
Members14,460
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Most Online1,344
Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 704 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 704 Likes: 1 |
Exclusivity. There aren't nearly as many 2 inch guns around as 2.5 inch guns. As a general rule you pay more usually when there is less quantity available.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,464 Likes: 133
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,464 Likes: 133 |
Mark Beasland recently sold a very nice one: Kimball Arms BLE with quite a bit of engraving (made by Skimmin & Wood), excellent condition, mid-$3K range. I'd guess a 2 1/2" 12ga, similar grade and condition, wouldn't come within $1,000 of that. As noted above, just not a lot of 2" guns out there.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,800 Likes: 567
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,800 Likes: 567 |
The two inch gun I owned was built by Skimmin & Wood I was told. It was a wand. Very light and a pleasure to carry and shoot for low volume numbers of birds. But it was built from the ground up to be light. The barrels were thin to begin with, the stock had been bored out to balance the gun, the ribs were sunken or swamped, the barrels were 25", the fore end was shorter than normal. It was a five pound and change magic wand. With my Federal Paper 2" reloads it was death on quail and doves.
The entire gun was designed to be a 2" gun not just a 2 1/2" that was bored to 2". It was choked IM in both barrels and I thought it was choked too tight until I patterned it and used it in the field. The delivered beautiful patterns. I was sadden to hear the next owner opened the chokes up without even trying them. He knew IM was too tight for a bird gun. I suspect his patterns were splotchy with hole at ranges there should have been none. Before you fix a gun you should see if there is a problem and fixing the chokes was not needed.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,288 Likes: 94
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,288 Likes: 94 |
Besides the obvious 2" chambers. What else makes up a 2" gun? Is it just the overall weight? Barrel length? Overall dynamics? What else?
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,800 Likes: 567
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,800 Likes: 567 |
Battle I thought mine handled like a 28 instead of a 12. It was light, very light. The IM patterns were very even and killed cleanly out to 30 yards. Beyond that I refuse to shoot much. Perhaps in the right hands it would go further but I think it was conceived as a ultra light weight game gun. It is a niche gun for someone who just wants something different. You could do the same thing with a 16 or 20. But those short 2" shells were the neatest looking things and paper always trumps plastic in my world. So I loaded Federal Paper hulls that I cut down to 2" and roll crimped. 15/16 ounce of shot was capable of taking wild quail, doves and farm raised pheasants. two rounds of skeet was about my limit as that light gun was not that much fun to shoot in high volume and I never felt it would stand up to heavy use.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,464 Likes: 133
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,464 Likes: 133 |
The one Mark had was somewhat unusual for a Brit 2" in that it weighed close to 6# with 26" barrels. The positive side of that is, it's still light enough for games like grouse and woodcock, but easier for a lot of people to shoot better than an ultra-light wand that's close to 5#--which a lot of Brit 2" guns were. When Arrieta made up a batch of 2" 12's several years ago, theirs all weighed right around 6#.
The theory with those 2" 12's is that, because of the very short shot column, they also have a very short shot string. Most of the pellets arriving on target at the same time. I don't know how much of an advantage that is, at ranges where 2" guns are typically used (see above posts), because elongated string seldom makes much practical difference unless you're doing some pretty long-distance shooting.
Last edited by L. Brown; 07/06/14 07:08 AM.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,383 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,383 Likes: 2 |
Besides the obvious 2" chambers. What else makes up a 2" gun? Is it just the overall weight? Barrel length? Overall dynamics? What else? From what little I have examined it is not unlike A.H. Fox 16ga. CZ-USA used to market 6lb Turkish-made O/U with choke tubes and alloy receiver. You can shoot 2" shells out of that if you want to. While it weighs few more ounces than light 2" English gun you can still shoot 2&3/4 light loads out of it and if you don't mind tears in your eyes  2&3/4 Nitromags. Oh, by the way that 6lb 9oz 686s 'Lusso' is still available at LGS. Very nice 2&3/4" O/U game gun for $1100.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,383 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,383 Likes: 2 |
PS. If you boys can't manage from slipping 16ga or 20ga shells into 12ga chambers like ole' 12ga Englihsman of past from what I have seen the entry fee for all original Birmingham Pigmie gun in very good shape is >$5,000. Remember modern breakproof Beretta Lusso is $1100.
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68 |
2 inch, 12's, if they weigh less than 5 1/2 pounds, are fine little bird guns. Of course other sub gauge guns can do what a 2 inch can, but that is beside the point. As already stated, most were made by Skimmin and Wood for other makers but I have seen at least three 2 inch, 12's made by Holland & Holland. I would stay clear of any 2 inch gun that weighs in at 6 lb. or more, such as those made by Arrieta. At $7K, those Spanish guns are too expensive, too heavy, and can't hold a candle to the quality of an older English gun. If you are really interested, keep looking and you will find one eventually, but be prepared to pay at least $5,000 for a nice, original boxlock and much more for a sidelock. They are among my favorite guns to take afield.
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