doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com T Barker

Saw a 12g a T Barker hammer gun today, Engraved receiver, the barrels were rusty on the outside but looked OK on inside. Stock seemed OK not great but OK. The gun locked up tight. It needs to be cleaned up and very possibly refurbished. I have no idea what it would cost to re-do but I am thinking about the gun. Any one have a suggestion as to price to buy it for and also wondering on cost to redo.

Two Thomas Barker hammer guns were listed in the 1902 Sears catalog in the imported guns section. One was plain with "Twist Finish" barrels @ $10.40. The other was Hand Engraved with "Royal Damascus Finish" barrels of Wilson Steel for $1.00 more or $11.40. Personally I would not desire to spend a lot of money on one of these guns.
If you are desiring to do the re-furb yourself then if it can be bought cheaply then it could be a good Practise gun but I seriously doubt the end value would be worth the cost of paying someone else to do the work.

To my knowledge, you cannot refinish Twist or Damascus "Finish" barrels. At least not and keep the pattern. They are not real pattern-welded barrels, they are steel barrels with a coating applied to make them look like the more expensive pattern-welded ones. Typically used on less expensive guns of Belgian origin. Look for Belgian proofs, as the Birmingham made types are actually of better quality and MAY be worth consideration. Birmingham gun's will have real pattern-welded barrels, though. I usually classify these types of guns, (Belgian) often called "Spurious" as they are named similar to more expensive guns to trick the unwary, as "Lamp Guns". They're not worth the time, money, and effort of restoration, but can be converted into nice Vintage decor items.

Some examples of name pairs, remembering that trademark law was weak or nonexistent at the time:

W Richards= Westley Richards
T Barker= Parker Bros
Sam Holt= Colt
A Greener= WW Greener

There are many more examples out there.

Here's Greener's explanation:
http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2012/06/spurious-guns-1.html
Regards
Ken

ttt

Murphy, I have a bunch of old clunkerish shotguns.

Your descriptions are too vague to be of much us as far as a valuation.

Start by taking the barrels off, and look for Belgian proofs. If it's a T Barker Belgian made clunker, then it's not worth more than $150.00 to me. Great condition, and tight (without forend on it) maybe 200.
They need hand loads or low pressure commercial ammunition at $12.00/bx. for starters.

They were $25.00 guns a hundred years ago.

But, if you came across a high grade, well covered with engraving, premium shotgun, then it's worth additional research.

I turned down a Remington 1894 ejector shotgun for 150.00 last week. Sketchy barrels, and a stock that had numerous cracks and repairs. So, look carefully at that Barker.

Start with removing the barrels, and looking at the proof marks.
If you are uncertain, take a phone pic and post it. Rub some chalk or shaving cream into the stamps if they are hard to see.

Here's a T Barker I own. You have to love the half octagonal half round barrels. And no I've never fired it.
Jim

Murphy,

I'd like to make a point. There are plenty of pre-1890 Birmingham hammerguns around that are in the same price range. These would be a better choice for a vintage gun. They will have actual pattern-welded barrels, and are a much better bet for refinishing or restoration. The best values are on guns that have less known names, as the better known names will command higher prices. The interesting thing is, a well known name gun may have been made by the same maker as a lesser known one, especially guns made for the "American Trade" which were more medium price point guns produced for export. Back then many "Makers" were really "Sellers" who put either their names or customer specified brand names on the finished guns. The guns were sourced from the myriad small shops in Birmingham, so quality was fairly consistent with the price point of the gun.

I own quite a few Birmingham hammerguns, all well made and now shootable. I don't have any Belgian spurious ones, at least none that aren't lamps that were bought very cheaply. The trick is to be able to tell the difference between them and the Belgian guns, the first step is to be able to recognize both Belgian and Birmingham proofs. The crazy thing is, often the Birmingham guns are actually priced lower than the Belgian spurious ones, due to the lesser known names on them. It always amazes me when I see the spurious guns priced so high on the auction sites. So, if you want a vintage gun, there's lots of opportunities out there.
Regards
Ken

Here's an example. Reasonably priced, but one side has a sear or sear spring issue. If it's as represented, it's not bad at all. Middleton was in business between 1855-1895. He was probably another "Seller" as well as possibly a "Maker". His guns are not well known, and are usually priced accordingly.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=432296889

Regards
Ken

Just looked at the barrel and can see the Damascus pattern but the water table is marked T for twist?? Also the top of barrel the rib says Belgium Royal Damascus??

is there a small star or crown over that T on the water table?


it may well be the inspector mark and not barrel related if the proofs are Belgium