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Forums10
Topics40,145
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Mar 28th, 2026
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,884 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,884 Likes: 16 |
I'm trying to track down some images of a 2nd-quality hammerless Holland & Holland DR (not the Royal) from around 1900.
I have a copy of an H&H catalog that lists the 2nd-quality as being available in most of their DRs. Unfortunately, it doesn't picture the gun.
Also, if a DR is proofed for rifleite, is it considered to be proofed for Nitro loads? The gun I'm looking at was proofed before 1904.
Thanks,
OWD
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,582 Likes: 831
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,582 Likes: 831 |
Rifleite was a early smokeless propellent which operated at lower pressures than cordite. Is it a .303? Lots of info in Winfer's books about the development of that round and the powders used for different loads. I think the Dallas book has pictures of 2nd quality double rifles but I would need to look that up.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 626
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 626 |
2nd quality ca.1901  c grade 
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,884 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,884 Likes: 16 |
Yeah - a .303. I have Winfer's book, and I'll check it out.
Just checked Dallas's book - and there is a No. 2, 500/465 on page 216. Thanks for the tip.
The No. 2 in Dallas's book is later (1927) and unengraved. It looks like a Dominion.
The H&H DR I saw was earlier (around 1900) with a Dominion-style action & locks, plus scroll engraving.
Same thing?
I appreciate the assistance.
OWD
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,884 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,884 Likes: 16 |
Thanks for the pics.
The DR I saw looked like that C-grade but it had engraving like that 2nd Quality.
OWD
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 626
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 626 |
Also see page 210.
What does the ledger page say? do you know who originally bought the gun?
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,884 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,884 Likes: 16 |
OK. The one on 210 is a shotgun. Were the DRs different?
I reached out to H&H. Waiting for info.
OWD
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 626
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 626 |
The top photo is a paradox but the ledger for the bottom photo indicates it is a #3. #2 and 3 guns were Scott guns finished at the Holland factory. 
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,884 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,884 Likes: 16 |
Just got word from H&H.
It's a #3.
Thanks for the help.
OWD
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 626
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 626 |
Did you get the name of the original owner? I am looking for a specific 303. Kind of a needle in a haystack type thing.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,884 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,884 Likes: 16 |
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 999 Likes: 9
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 999 Likes: 9 |
Have a 303 from that era, PM, a 3-grade finished at factory in late 1897. Had JJ Perodeau regulate it back to using the 215 gr bullet and have had it in Africa (DGJournal forthcoming).
Can private message me with your specifics.
Regards,
Tim
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![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/pDE6fdPm.jpg)