doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com M17 question

What most don't realize is how many configurations could be ordered back in the 20s and 30s, even when ordering a pump gun. Stock lengths varied as did dimensions and the early ones were often 13 3/4 but I've seen latter ones 14 1/4 (B grade checkered stock). I would agree with you that if it has the original butt, it's likely original. Often they were cut due to unpopular pitch angles designed for heads up shooting or to make them into kids guns.

The different weights of you barrels, if I had to guess, is probably due to one being honed out. These are old guns after all and often smiths needed little encouragement to hone out light pits. I suppose there is the possibility a certain barrel was requested to be struck lighter. Some might laugh but the majority of B grades I've seen have been plain barrels, not solid ribbed, so I think that's feasible even if not near as likely as it just being honed out. A bore gauge might tell the story.

Barrels are sort of all over the place, I have 26" Full choked barrel and 27 1/4" barrel marked Full that both mic out the same. The 27 1/4" barrel also weighs the same as my 27 7/8" solid rib at 1 lb 10oz. Bore diameter of the solid rib is only .003 larger. Remember though, the ribs on these barrels were machined as part of the barrel, not added on, so likely that lead to more hand work and striking. (I'm making some assumptions) These were working guns and the easiest way to go from full to Modified was a hack saw which might explain at least some of the unusual lengths. I've seen enough guns though to believe many left the factory with slightly different length barrels.

Sorry for running on!

Tim

A 1939 M17 and a 1939 Ithaca M37. Two cousins born the same year. I just picked up the Ithaca Friday. It was sold as a 28� FC 20 gauge. I wasn�t disappointed to see it was actually Modified as marked on the barrel. They don�t show their age and are in original condition.




Tim,great stuff you posted. Thanks for sharing and thanks again for the heads-up on the M-17. Gil

Just because a Remington Model 17 has checkered wood doesn't make it a Model 17B "Special" Grade. As originally introduced the Model 17A "Standard Grade had plain wood and a ringed forearm just like the Model 10A. From the 1921 Remington Arms Co., Inc. Catalogue No. 51 --



From the 1923 Remington Arms Co., Inc. catalogue --



When Remington Arms Co., Inc. moved to the Model 29, the Model 29A "Standard" Grade had a checkered stock and forearm and shortly thereafter they began supplying the Model 17A "Standard" Grade with a checkered stock and forearm. From the 1930 Remington Arms Co. Inc. catalogue --



A real Model 17B "Special" Grade would be marked B-GRADE on the left side of the receiver like this Sportsman B "Special" Grade --

Wow Gil! Both are gorgeous! Think about it for a second, these guns are a fraction of the cost of a decent double and yet they have the weight and dimensions of some of the best ones. Accordingly, they make fine bird guns. This was John Moses Browning's last pump shotgun design, completed in 1914 (100 years ago), sold to Remington in 1915, planned for production in 1917- but not built until 1921 (because of WWI). This design spawned untold millions of guns that followed on from the original 20-gauge only iteration. First the Model 31 (a 17 modified for side-ejection), and then the Model 37 (which is still in production). Even the now-venerable 870 is a direct descendant of the 17/31, as are the Mossberg 500s and the Flyte-Kings and all those other more cheaply-made clones.

The sad part is that even a few years ago, I would have turned up my nose at the thought of owning and using a pump gun. Conceit is a weird thing, isn't it?

Lloyd, my 28" ribbed barrel weighs 1 pound eleven ounces.

And yes, these are remarkable guns! My "new" 17, which is in almost unfired condition and was made in 1933 has checkered wood and the ribbed barrel. Handles and points beautifully and the finish work is fabulous, especially when compared to the stuff made today.

Stock dimensions are 13 3/4" X 1 3/8" X 2 1/2"

Oh, I made the wood plug per your dimensions and it works great. Thanks.

Joe, a photo, please! gil

Joe: Glad that plug worked out for you. I'm away from a decent scale, so I can't report on the exact weight of my two barrels. What I do remember is the surprising difference in weight between them. Two-inches shouldn't weigh 3-ounces.

Tim: This "new" to me barrel has obviously been heavily honed, as it started life as a full-choked unit and now only has 8-points of constriction left. I had to re-set the bead down almost a quarter-inch to get it flush with the barrel (which involved a bit of grinding to keep things flush internally).

That weight difference was surprisingly obvious on the dove opener here. The gun handles very differently for me now. It should still be fine for ruffed grouse, but for passing shots I'll need to work with it a bit (or use the longer, modified barrel), as I'm slashing through most of my shots now.

Gil,

What a set! Is it my imagination or does the 17 have more modern dimensions than the 37? Both are gorgeous!

Researcher, always enjoy your adds and knowledge. Seems to me your getting your information from the picture in this add, not the description. Maybe a photo is more prone to error? I have seen several dozen 17s and never seen one marked with the B. The Es and Fs that I have photo's of aren't marked as well if I recall, though they are extensively engraved. Either way it's all trivia.

Took my 1921 UMC gun out tonight. 26" Full choke, four digits with no barrel code. This fat fox squirrel was no match, took a second and called it a night. Taking my FIL and daughters boyfriend in the morning, have to leave a few!

Tim, I think it's just that the guns aren't parallel that gives that impression of different stock dimensions. The shape and radius of The M17's pistol grip and fuller checkering coverage are more pleasing to my eye. The game scenes on the Ithaca are so crisp as to appear hand chased. It may be that the rollers are so fresh and new that the cuts are more crisp than what appears on my later made M37's wherein the rollers became worn. 1939 was the first year of sales for the 20 gauge M37. This was the first year of the "Featherlight" designation. This one weighs 5 lbs., 11.5 oz. Gil

Gil: FWIW: My 1939 M37 16 has noticeably more drop than my 1929 M17 and feels quite different to mount. Perhaps that is a gauge-specific thing?