doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com plastic fouling

I think I just read somewhere that Windex is not prudent with Damascus barrels because of the ammonia. I'll see if I can find that post on one of the other boards. Any informed comments?

OK, I found the other thread about cleaning after BP or corrosive ammo. The concern expressed was that the ammonia could leave acidic residue and cause corrosion. Not an issue with fluid steel barrels as long as they are oiled after cleaning. The other concern about ammonia in Windex is that the ammonia will damage shellac finishes on wood.

File this in the FWIW column, which may not be much if you are not an ardent blackpowder shooter.

I decided to risk another PVC barreled gun one more time. After the last time I was pretty leery of shooting plastic shotcups again but I was also still surprised at how bad the plastic fouling was. So, this time, I loaded up the same load with one modification. I soaked the fiber wads with lube - mostly SPG and some other similar odds and ends of BPCR bullet lube that i had on hand. This made the wads stiffer so I had to shave them down a little to get the loads to fit together but otherwise, they were identical to the loads that had turned my shotgun into a plastic mine.

The end result is that there was still plastic fouling after one round of trap. However instead of taking 2 days and the better half of a can of Kroil to soak and brush with, I needed only two spray downs with Kroil and about an hour of soaking or less and the gun was clean again. So, the problem is MUCH better with the lubed fiber wads, but they are not altogether absent either.

From my perspective the targets were well broken most of the time, suggesting I had a good pattern. Better than when I have used only mylar or nothing at all for shotcups. So I think the effort is worth it. However, there is not much likelihood of shooting multiple trap rounds without some stiff brushing and wiping between rounds. More than I probably want to do. So I'll save the bp ammo for hunting in the field and my last round of trap for the night.

Anyway, there you have it. Lubed wads really made a difference. I presume that is because they sealed the bore much better, preventing blow-by that probably badly melted the cups in the previous outing. They also probably resulted in somewhat faster velocities though I have no data to prove that one way or the other.

Thanks for bearing with me. The conversation helped me isolate the wads and the lube issue.

Brent

FWIW, not all Windex contains ammonia. We buy one formulation that is "ammonia free" for use on our stone countertops. Ammonia will eventually dull the shine on them.

SRH

I use Kent faststeel 3 inch plastic hulls cut to 2.5 inches, winchester 209 primers, 3.5 drams ffg, a 3/8 inch dry wad, next a 3/8 inch lubed wad (wonderlube), then a winchester aa plastic shot cup, 1 1/8 oz shot, and an overshot card and roll crimp. I have never seen the faintest hint of plastic fouling. I have on numerous occasions picked up the expent shot cup and they do not show any trace of melting. I see others do something very similar to my method and have plastic fouling. I am a bit perplexed why that would happen.

Fascinating. The degree of variation is surprising. I wonder if different plastic cups are made with different types of plastic that have different melting properties?

brent: back when cva first came out with their muzzle loading shotgun, they also offered a plastic shot cup suitable for use with black powder. as i recall, they were tan in color, unlike any other shot cup i have seen.

I have wondered if, perhaps, cups for steel shot might be better, but they take up a lot of room for these already short cases. I have used thick water-color paper as a shot sleeve similar to how mylar wraps are used and I may go back to that at some point, but they are a little tedious (says the guy who exclusively paper patches centerfire rifles day-in day-out).

Why the need for plastic wads? Fiber worked ok for years. The plastic will give a tighter pattern with less fliers, but how many of us are going to shoot registered targets with black powder - no one. IMHO, if you're going to shoot BP, then do it the way it was done back in the day - with fiber wads.

Paul,
Your question is a good one. As for who is going to shoot "registered" targets, well I don't know what "registered" means really but I shoot black at everything including normal trap and skeet games. I do not compete per se, but I do shoot it a lot.

Second, I can actually buy blackpowder 25# at a crack with out any problem. Buying shotgun powder compatible with 150+ year old guns is not so simple it seems. After extensive searching I came up with two lbs of 7625 at almost $40/lb with tax.

And third, I hunt with blackpowder in these guns. I like cleaner kills on pheasants simply because cleaner kills are always a personal goal. And better patterns are simply going to kill birds better - not to mention, missing with a bad shot is less likely to cripple a bird with a single errant pellet. Or at least I think so.

I'm still using fiber for an over-powder wad and a cushion wad. But from what I've see so far, the plastic gives a much better pattern resulting in more clay targets hit and those targets appear to be hit much better, relative to the same loads w/o plastic shotcups. BTW, I'm using plastic cups only - not plastic wads.

finally, I just prefer to use black for the "boom" that it produces, and the flash and smoke and simply the traditional feel of it all. Is that not why we all lean to double guns with barrels in a horizontal plane in the first place? Nope, plastic isn't traditional but see #3 above.

Were it otherwise, I would shoot modern loads in a Benelli autoloader and be done with it. But that just ain't my style.

Late to the party & I'm not a BP shooter, but there is a product called "Quick-Shot" bore cleaner that I've been using for some years now w/great success. It is specifically formulated for cleaning shotgun bbl.'s and plastic removal.

It also will also clean the carbon fouling from revolvers better than anything else I've found.