doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com FFL's and Antiques

Agreed, its an Antique,last time I looked Eddy Good is just a kitchen table FFL with a torch and deceptive pictures(no business hrs,only mail order were he can hide his POS cracker barrel guns),not the one who decides what the law is !Thanks Goodness !

For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the term �Antique Firearms� means any firearm not intended or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

I talked with my local ATF agent about "antiques" as he stated, if you can find the ammunition on the internet, that is considered "ordinary channels of commercial trade".

So if the ATF wanted to they could classify any ctg gun as a Non antique.

You can't blame an FFL holder for being overly cautious, for many of them their FFL is their livelihood.

So a Parker from 1897 in 12 guage would not be considered an "antique" since it uses easily obtainable ammo even though it was manufactured before 1898? Same for a Springfield trap door in 45-70 manufactured in 1877?

None of the guns made during that era were INTENDED to be used with modern gun powders. Mike Hunter, I believe you are taking the above verbage out of context. The page from which it has been taken is referencing "original antique" firearms which have been modified, resulting in reclassification under the NFA. Note the illustrations where the original and modified versions are shown with explanations. If the original were not considered an "antique" by the ATF then the page would not exist detailing the change from "original antique shotgun" to "short barreled shotgun" under the NFA. In that example, the ATF says that the original is an antique even though it uses a conventional ignition system abnd utilizes modern ammo. Correct?

http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms/fire...antique-firearm

Not Correct.

That is the ATF's definition of an antique firearm. If you find another definition within the CFR, please post it.

Historically the ATF really dose not care about the old guns, but that is a catch all that the ATF will use.

From ATF website - As defined in 18 U.S.C. � 921(a)(16) the term �antique firearm� means � any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica �

is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade;

The first section describing any firearm "manufactured in or before 1898" stands on its own. The discussion of using fixed ammunition no longer manufactured in the US and not readily available in the ordinary channels of trade refers to the section directly above it describing replicas - not firearms mfg. before 1898.

Thank you for the clear explanation. I agree, and that has been the long held understanding of both the public and the ATF for many, many years.

Any FFL who would state what Ed has stated above is nothing more than a gun control fool who should surrender their license instead of trying to impose their own ideas of how laws should be written on the general public. The law is the law. To suggest that someone who follows the law is an "irresponsible seller" and a circumvention of the background check laws is just plain...STUPID. Even more moronic is the idea that an individual who cannot otherwise pass a background check would create an account on Gunbroker for the purposes of making a recorded purchase of such a antique item. Show me one example where criminal activity has resulted from this type of transaction. What a freaking idgit. I'd feel better about buying a gun from Dick's Sporting Goods.

Clear as day in this FAQ

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/collectors.html

Yes, Quite clear. My model 1884 Springfield Trap Door in .45-70 or my Two-hook 12ga Lefever are both antiques even though shells which will fir in them are readily available. Should someone decide to reproduce either, even in the same chambering they would not be antiques.
Likewise if a replica Henry rifle were made chambered for the original .44 RF it would pass under the antique status, but when made for the .44-40 it does not.
Anything made 1898 or earlier is "Antique".

Eddy Good should be more concerned about HIS activities as an 01 FFL that is NOT open to the public then trying to enforce rules that are not there !

478.11 : Business premises. The property on which the manufacturing or importing of firearms or ammunition or the dealing in firearms is or will be conducted. A private dwelling, no part of which is open to the public, shall not be recognized as coming within the meaning of the term.

What other laws to you want to change Eddy ? How about Semi Auto firearms which you have posted should not be owned,how about hand guns eddy,come on show your "true" colors