doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com proof marks- Birmingham

i recognize the major marks- provisional - inspection, final Black powder, 10Bore/12 muzzle "not for ball"

but does anyone know what the "3" on both ends of the marks represents (the chambers measured 2 11/16 - so common British 2 5/8 short ten)

and the "S.P" on the under rib? some barrel maker's initials? the serial number is preceded by "P S" only on the barrels. I know that SP with a crown was later used to signify a heavy proof.

and the R in a circle?

I am guessing these are maker's marks, not proof house stamps but thought someone here may have seen them before. they are on the underside of a Clabrough hammer gun

Lawrence Shelton just published a book, "J.P. Claybrough Birmingham Gunmaker". I bought a copy from him at the Antique Arms Show.
Looking through the book, I see several guns with a 3 on the barrels. It may be a vendor/barrel maker code.
There are some serial number tables in the book. The proof marks are pre-1887.
There was an early model hammer gun with high hammers and a newer low hammer model. A serial number or photo of the action would help.
Does it have the "Duck and Quail Gun" butt plate? Seems like there must have be some whopping big quail in CA back then to need a 10 (or lousy bird dogs).
You should be able to Google the book if you want a copy.

Joe

The book's full title is "J.P. Clabrough Birmingham Gunmaker," and is available on Shelton's web site: www.clabrough.com

I think he also had some copies for sale on eBay.

Be aware that he wrote a smaller book on Clabrough over 20 years ago (titled "J.P. Clabrough & Bros.: Gunmakers" and that may come up in searches, but the new edition (2013) is a completely different work. It has 20+ years of research into it.

This is the Table of Contents of the book:

Chapter 1. The Clabrough Family
Chapter 2. Gun Production
Chapter 3. Clabrough Guns in the Field
Chapter 4. Clabrough Percussion and Hammer Guns
Chapter 5. Clabrough Hammerless Guns
Chapter 6. Partners & Successors: Golcher, Johnstone, Redgrave
Chapter 7. Johnstone and Redgrave Guns
Chapter 8. Clabrough Boxlock Guns
Chapter 9. Trade Guns
Chapter 10. British Bull Dogs
Appendix A. Dating Clabrough Shotguns
Appendix B. Birmingham Proof Marks
Appendix C. Clabrough Butt Plates
Appendix D. Guide to Gun Parts
Appendix E. Clabrough Catalogs
Index

The book is 256 pages.

Thanks Joe, I do need to pick up a copy of the book, I traded emails and sent pictures to Mr Shelton some time ago. You are correct about the timeline for the proof marks those I understand. I am just curious about the other marks. It is a duck & quail. Serial number 32. Obviously at 10 pounds and patterns over 90% with lead shot at 40 yards it was meant for waterfowling.

It might equally well have been a live pigeon gun. Around that time the sport was very popular amongst the rising middle classes to an extent not always recognised today.

The less fashionable makers were keen on supplying the demand (Churchill's kicked off in just that market) and tens were a common choice.

If it was a 'fowling gun it's in remarkably good condition; doesn't look to have spent much time on a salt marsh.

Eug

The R in a circle could indicates that the barrel tubes were made by Rose Brothers of, Hales Owen,and as such could be one of their trade marks.
The 3 could be a component batch control mark some times seen when a number of lower cost guns of similar gauge/type were are manufactured at the same time. The number ensured that components for an individual gun were not mixed prior final assembly. This was necessary because in this era parts were not truly interchangeable and most required some degree of hand fitting.In such circumstances the final gun number was not added until the final assembly of barrels to locks and action.
On some more expensive custom guns the final serial # or part of was used for batch/quality control purposes.

thanks Eugene,

the bores were great- the rest of the gun was a bit of a basket case, I rebrowned the barrels, steamed some dents out of the wood, and refinished it, fixed an issue with the locks, straightened out bent triggers installed new striker springs and also had both broken hammers re-spurred, had it put back on face (only a little off) and had a couple replacement screws made.

Like I said - just curious about the odd marks

from this



to this

it is ready for another life time in the marshes

I like those tubes

I purchased a 10 gauge duck & quail last month. It's a bit later gun than yours as it has a higher serial number and instead of showing the bore and muzzle size with "not for ball", mine just says choke. But it too has the number "3" stamped on the barrels. No "R" in a circle though. Like your gun, mine also has quite nice bores and outer barrel appearance but the wood could use some TLC. The action is also slightly "off face" and it has a couple of buggered screws. Almost sounds like it was owned by the same owners of your gun!!
And yes, unless I was into body building, I wouldn't want to carry this thing after quail.