doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com AMERICAN ART AT ITS FINEST

They're not art, they're a craft.

Art is about individual expression, and very few shotguns were/are built with this in mind.

Most were/are built to a pattern or style established by the firm making them. The folks making the guns adhered to this pattern or style.

OWD

obsessed: you do have a point there. but, collectively, i still consider them to be an art form.

maybe this is more of an american art form:

http://www.nramuseum.org/the-museum/the-...lock-rifle.aspx

When dealing with vintage/antique guns, one often hears the term "lost art form", especially when talking about damascus barrels. To me a gun that is a "work of art" would be a hand made gun that was custom ordered with engraving specified by the person ordering.

I don't want to diminish the craft component, because it's critical, but art is a very big part of why these guns are so admired and cherished. Fine guns are largely defined by their artistic execution. Why else is a Boss or a Woodward, or even certain Parkers or Lefevers so expensive? An 870 would arguably do the same job, so why the difference in price? You're paying for the art.

Looking back at the subject gun, something might catch the eye to separate the special ones from the standard pattern gun. What do you think of that big hunk of sapwood at the butt of the stock. Specially selected for artist purposes, or expedient.

I don't think the execution is artistic, though.

You can go through a batch of Purdeys from the '20s and see that they're pretty much the same. Same with Woodwards. Bosses are more idiosyncratic, but you really have to know what you're looking at the see what sets one apart from the other.

The guys who made the guns were executing a pattern, not their personal idea of what the perfect gun should be. Some executions were better than others, and that came down to the skill of the craftsmen involved.

I think the biggest driver in the American market is sentimentality. I love Lefevers, Foxes, etc, but there's no way they're better than top British guns. The quality just isn't there. But top American stuff brings bigger bucks.

There's nothing wrong with craft, but rarely is it art.

Fun to think about...

OWD

I got curious & looked Art up in my dictionary. To my way of thinking quality engraving & fine sculpting of the higher grade guns definitely fit the definition of "Art".
Just me I guess, but I had an 870 "Once" & it didn't do the job for me of even an entry level Double. being able to load a few extra shells came at too high a price for me. My Lefevers are certainly "Artistic" compared to that 870, in fact even so was my first double, a J Stevens Arms & Tool Company. In fact i wish I had that old J Stevens back but one would have to pay me to take an 870. Yes @ 76 I think I am quite old enough to be highly opinionated.

"They're not art, they're a craft.

Art is about individual expression, and very few shotguns were/are built with this in mind."

This is an interesting perspective but it doesn't hold a lot of water. Let's assume Van Gogh is an artist expressing himself individually. Fair enough. What about a musician in a band? Is he an artist? He's really not expressing himself as an individual but rather as part of a group of people. Same goes for a dancer in a ballet. But we call those performing arts, still.

The funny thing about art is that the more useless it is, the more 'Art' it is. A painting is useless (unless you have a hole in the wall that needs covering) but it's the highest from of art there is. A shotgun actually does something but it is barely art, if at all.

I don't know. You make a good point...but...

I think most creative professionals are practicing a craft at a high level - some at a higher level than others. Some of these people reach the level of art, but most don't.

I'm a writer and I've earned a living at it for over 20 years. I've written all sorts of stuff and my work has appeared at pretty high levels - national mags, broadcast TV, etc. I don't think of any of this work as art, though.

For me, writing is a craft, and being good at it takes practice and dedication. Same with being a good musician or dancer. Mostly craft, sometimes art; mostly sweat, sometimes inspiration.

Like I said, it is a fun topic to think about. I don't think there's a real "answer".

Here's an interesting presentation on it if anyone is interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVdw60eCnJI

OWD

I wouldn't take a Remington 870 if it was given to me. But I sure wish I had walked into that gun store before Lloyd did to grab up his Model 31.


Now that is a work of art!!!