doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com RST Patterns

One other interesting side note. I did a pellet count of the RST shell and counted 326 pellets, which is a bit above the nominal 307 count for 7/8 oz of 7.5s. Interestingly, the shot weighed .875 oz. This would seem to suggest high-antimony shot, presumably?

I just picked up a pair of used Brown & Sharpe dial calipers on FleaBay, and should have an answer to that question soon.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Doverham, et al, you need to read Dr. Andrew Jones's book on shotgun patterning before "investing" heavily in a patterning experiment or getting too attached to some of the ideas that have long floated as truth.

Basically, if you aren't willing to shoot 10 patterns and do a statistically valid analysis on the set, you all be whistlin' Dixie. The #1 take-away from the foregoing is that shotgun patterns are really, really variable. #2 take-away is that eyeball integration of patterns is a non-starter. And that for sure means that pellet count within a circle is such a crude analysis as to be mostly worthless.

I already know there will be shouts of "foul," but above is the modern truth. Sorry patterning is complicated, but better to know than go banging away and develop "facts" from flawed data.

DDA

Yeah, I forgot

Since that Dr. guy wrote a book, none of this traditional stuff is valid any more.

Hard shot and shot wrappers have all been a waste of time.

Never mind buffering and staying subsonic.

The size of a pattern on a splash board is all an illusion.

'Tis better to have patterned, than to not have patterned at all. The patterning board taught me that shooting #4s out of my Hasting's barrel, on my A5, with the IC tube in, was pretty much a waste of time. There were holes in the pattern my dog could run through. It taught me that my first year Ruger Red Label didn't shoot to POA with either barrel. We also discovered another A5 that had a pattern about 10 feet right of center at 40 yards, very handy on right hand crossing shots, but, not for much else. We also discovered that my Brother's Savage Fox, with modified and full 30" barrels, would consistantly put a Federal slug through the center of a pop can at 40 yards with the modified choke barrel-the full choke barrel put the slug somewhere else. We never did find out where. My brother shot a LOT of deer with that gun, always aware it was a single shot for that use.
These were all good things to know. The pattern board is an excellent place to start, but, the answers aren't always simple or predictable.
Few people take enough time to find out where their guns are shooting, in my experience.

Best,
Ted

Doverham. Is the rst shell fibre wad or plastic? This alone will make a significant differance. The fibre wad won't protect the outer pellets from flattening out against the barrels this causing them not to fly true to the target. ( like throwing a flat stone into the wind).

Yes I'm going to bring up the old story. Shooting at a pattern board is great for shooting at a stationary target but not wing shooting. Good shot string is what kills birds! Low power light loads tend to have the best shot string so I'm sure you will be very happy with the rst shells. Note all guns shoot all shells different so hitting the skeet club or sporting clays is the best test.

As far as where a gun shoots for you, the low #7 on a skeet field is handy for that.

Watch where that target just starts to drop, which with no wind is usually just past mid-field, point and shoot just before it starts dropping. That's as near an aiming point as a flying target can be. It will give good feedback on point of impact (if there is one!).

Pattern size is easily seen on a splash board. We use a steel plate covered with white grease that's renewed with a paint roller.

Pattern quality is another matter. I've always shaken my head at the notion of 'holes' in a pattern. Sure, if you're shooting a stationary target like a turkey or the one in a hundred birds that truly have no relative motion, then an observed 'patchy' pattern is a problem. But... the target sees a cloud of shot, and a moving target experiences the cloud in 3 dimensions.

Brister came as close as anybody to demonstrating that with his towed targets.

What shows up on a pattern board isn't what a bird experiences.

Pattern size and point of impact are the variables we can control. We do that with choke, load selection, and a gun we can shoot well.

We're better at it than the rocket science boys have been lately.

Shot string can be a hard thing to explain. The easy way to think of it is that you want the majority of your shot to show up at the target at the same time. Remember this is at a moving target.

and if you miss or only hit with the fringe of the shot string- how would you know where the center is/was? I have found the 16 yard mount and shoot method a good start.

I can agree on the two dimensional aspect of a pattern sheet Vs something a least approaching 3D like Brister's towed target ( i have been unable to talk any 18 wheeler drivers into letting me use the sides of their trailers)

All the shot on the plane of the target instantaneously would be the ideal. It can't be done. The target moves as the shot cloud passes. This results in a loss of effective pattern density for anything that has any relative motion to the axial direction of the shot. What shows as a hole on a stationary board would present to a moving target as a tilted cylinder in the cloud, and be essentially meaningless for predicting the chances of a target being hit or escaping.

For all but high deflection shots at long range, the % loss isn't that dramatic but for any moving target what you see on paper isn't what you get at the plane of the target.

Doverham I was just on rst web site what shell did you get? In 20 gauge 2 1\2 1150fps they have a paper lite, paper fibre wad and a spreader lite. If you got a spreader load your mystery is solved.