doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com W.W. Greener disassembly?

Gentlemen,
I am attemting to open an 1880 mfg., W.W. Greener, ser# 20018, that has the barrels locked by the crossbolt. The frame has been stripped of all but the top lever, crossbolt and the lower hold-down bolts. The top lever has had the screw removed but needs the crack arm to drop before it can be removed from the frame. The lower bolts are free of the crank arm but will not travel far enough to the rear to let the crack drop to free the lever. The lever is not engaging the crossbolt. I am told this is a rack and pinion crossbolt. Action is locked tight as a back vault. Any help on how to proceed without distruction of the gun is most appreciated. I am a machinist and have all the necessary equipment.

It is not a rack and pinion. The crossbolt is actuated by a simple lever that is attached to the opening lever. The lever is at about the 11 o'clock position on the opening lever. It fits into a slot in the crossbolt.

If the top lever screw is out and you have removed the top lever spring , you should be able to drive the square shaft down to disengage the top lever.

This is difficult to describe but please go slowly and use minimum force. With the toplever out you may be able to drive the crossbolt out using the slot the lever fit in as a purchase point.

If I have misunderstood your dilemma, please post some photos.

Hammergun,

My assumption of it being a rack and pinion was from an earlier email from Graham Greener, who stated such. Look through the following pics. I have drilled and tapped the end of the crossbolt and tried a slide hammer with Zero luck at moving it. The lever will move up on the square lug on the Crank but not enough to remove it. The lower bolt can not be removed until the barrels open.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/euroclan/005-2.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/euroclan/004.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/euroclan/003.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/euroclan/001-2.jpg


Thank you,

John

Ok. I forgot the way Greener attached to the underbolt. Most guns the underbolt can remain while you drive the spindle downwards.

The slide hammer was a good idea. I'm surprised it has not worked.

I'm trying to think of a non-destructive way to get things moving. I would soak it in a penetrating oil and try the slide hammer some more.

As a last resort I suppose you could cut the attachment to the underbolt. It could be TIG or lazer welded back together.

I'll keep looking at the photos. If I have an idea I'll get back to you.

Is it all seized ? Would it be worth standing it in a tub of diesel for a couple of days, things may well start to move then.

It has been soaked in Kroil but not submerged. I may try a fitted sleeve and use the threads as a puller bolt. It would really help to see the lever and crossbolt disassembled so I know how to manipulate them.

John

Bump the pin in.
By midday tomorrow a great group of British contributors will be along to help sort this mess out for you.
They might be....temperamental (?) about this.

There are only 4 parts left in the gun from what I can see in the photos.
Top Lever
Greener Crossbolt
Top Lever Spindle
locking Bolt
The normal order of disassembly at this point (assuming the barrels were off the action)would be to remove the Locking Bolt which should slide directly rearwards.
Next, tap the spindle out of the top lever directly downwards being careful not to damage the threads.
Now the top lever is free to slide directly backwards.
Finally, the cross-bolt will slide out of the side of the fence.
I would try to pull out (move) the locking bolt first because if you cannot move the locking bolt to free them from the lumps, you will be going nowhere! The issue that I foresee is the locking bolt has the most surface area and contact points for seizing and may be difficult to remove. You will not be able to pull it out completely because of the rear lump on the barrels will prevent it from sliding totally out.
The Greener cross-bolt has a slot cut horizontally in it. This is where the arm that extends from the top lever slots into and pushing the top lever to the right forces the cross-bolt out of the fence and unlocks the barrel extension.
You have to get the top lever out.
Then you can pull the Greener cross bolt.
Then move the locking bolt back.
The barrels should be free after that!
Clear as mud???

John the bolt needs to come out first, and everything else in obvious sequence...you just have to figure out why its binding .If you've had it in soak for a bit try giving a tap from the front then the back with a brass drift to see if you get some movement...as always proceed with caution .

sorry I can't be of more help.

Chris

TTT

It would seem there are parts sheared off within the mechanism.
No obvious corrosion. Just wedged parts.

the lever is open so it looks like the cross bolt lever broke off or bent inside.i looked at two of my guns with crossbolts(not greeners) and the cross bolt moves as soon as you move the top lever.

I wish Geno was still alive.
In 2009 He and gunman had a nice discussion here about making the crossbolts from stock.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...0e9a2dcdc2ccad6

I am not at home, so I can't go into the shop and disassemble mine. I'm pretty sure it's not the pins taper, as the slide hammer would overcome that. And, I was advised to let the pin be run dry, as it's a very light friction fit at closing.
The extension that actuates the pin would seem to be broken based on the top lever being so far to the right without any pin extension.
You might be able to return the lever to center, and work both elements toward open simultaneously.

But I expect there's going to be some parts made sooner or later. I like a nitre blued cross pin FWIW.

As several of you have noted, The lever is free to move with no resistance, thus I am certain the engaging arm of the lever is broken. I am a proponent of, "always destroy the cheapest part". But which is that in this case? The Crossbolt or the Top Lever Spindle? The Top lever is assumed to already be broken but it is also the most difficult to replicate.

When I find time, I will get more agressive with a slide hammer on the crossbolt.

Thank you all,

John