doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com How does one value a 28-gauge M12?

It was intended to be a bit tongue in cheek, but, if you did drag it along, I'd certainly help you play with it!

If we end up in that part of the world grouse hunting, I'll likely have a 12 gauge Spanish boxlock along. Same reasoning, I'm sure.

Best,
Ted

Ted: I'm going to be in Duluth in late July for a wedding. Any worthy spots to see or visit up in that neck of the woods?

Also, Mr. Fox: my Riffle book confirms your assessment of first year production of the 28-gauge M12s as 1937. Either I screwed up or there's a typo in the data I was looking at, as SN 746xxx IS 1937(and not 1936 as I had earlier surmised). From everything I been told here (and from what I've read online), if this gun doesn't have the angled channel in the receiver for the shell stop, it has been very creatively made-up. Next question: from what I now understand, some of the clones actually cycle better than the originals, making them far-more useful as shooters. If that's the case here, what is a nicely executed clone worth? Certainly not the $3,500 cited in the Bluebook but likely more than your average Plain Jane 20, right? I'm guessing that if you could pick up a decent copy for $1,500 or so, it wouldn't be a bad buy. Certainly worth that as a conversation piece IMHO.

Depends on the time you've got to kill, Lloyd. A walk on the pier is nice, dinner at Fitger's, visiting the museum near the harbor, or a half day trip to Split Rock lighthouse all come to mind. The original light keepers were a tough bunch of humans. Book a day trip with a charter on the lake. The fishing on Lake Superior is a bit slow, in my experience. Don't fall in, you got about thirty seconds before you pass out from the cold, and sink, if you do. That line from Gordon Lightfoot's song about the lake not giving up her dead is based on fact.
Puglesi's Gun Emporium is in Gary New Duluth, I think, might be worth a visit-I see him at the larger shows, and have never made the time to go to his store, I think you need to call in advance.
Let me know when you are going to be there, maybe we can break free and catch lunch. I owe you one.

Best,
Ted

Haven't got all the logistics worked out yet. Will likely fly into I-Falls or Bemidji, hang in Baudette, fish a bit and then head for the wedding. Lunch would be great but I doubt that I'll make it down your way this trip. What's your boxlock? Are Darnes technically boxlocks?

My quick reply would be: "Verrry carefully." The guys are right, there may be more fake or made up 28's for sale than originals.
But, the same thing is true with "Pigeon Grades," because Winchester didn't have a list of the genuine ones to check.

Sam Ogle

I am not sure on the value of the cloned M12 in 28 gauge, as compared to the original "Real Deal" M12-- But anyone who has gone to the trouble to "clone" a 16 or 20 gauge M12 into a 28 gauge, for the potential profit motive therein, will, most likely have a fair amount of parts and labor invested in that counterfeit- You don't interchange barrels, even with the same gauge, with a Model 12, as you might with the Remington M870-- The interrupted threads, the various depth for chamber rings, the positioning of a 28 gauge bolt with the firing pin interceptor into a used receiver from a 20 or a 16, all these plus the afore-mentioned details that make the 28 gauge a bit different from the 20-or, the 16 as well-

Model 12 production and serial number runs are not as inconsistent as, let us say, those for the LC Smith guns- but just as with the great Winchester pre-1964 Model 70- against, supposedly first year, as with the M12 28 gauge we are discussing- both being "by the book" as 1937- but I have a friend with a Model 70 SG that dates to late 1936, and as with the running changes, is barreled with a M54 barrel- 30-Govt.- 06) the first style stamping for that std. military caliber in the M70's long history--

I would say this, as it is your $, and not mine of course- Memorize all the details and data given here for you, both by myself, also others here as well- and when you confront a possible seller of a "counterfeited" 28 gauge M12 that fits you as to balance and stock dims, and other important details to your shooting style, ask the seller to remove the buttstock, dis-assemble the magazine and band from the barrel, look closely at the receiver, ask him to remove the trigger housing group, look at the carrier and shell stop, in innards of the receiver with the bolt reward- and then, make him an offer below his asking price. In this manner he will know he is NOT dealing with a "rookie" buyer who is caught up in the Karma of both the small gauge shotguns, but the cachet of the older Model 12's- then, as a final note, after the gun has been re-assembled (by him)--tell him you want to test fire it, both with 2& 3/4" and the older 2& 7/8" shells- run at least 10 to 12 rounds rapid fire through it, with both lengths, and inter-mixed. If it cycles and fires perfectly, no ejection problems, and you like it- then buy it- and keep it- You'll not find many Perfect Repeaters in 28 gauge, whether "to the manor born originals" or the "red-headed stepchild" variety-

FWIW, I picked up a 28ga conversion gun for $1300 a few years ago. It's a "high grade" conversion with fancy wood and fine checkering, engraved silver grip cap, and a very non-factory rib matting, probably a late 70s/early 80s conversion. 100% condition, much nicer than most factory guns and no attempt to make it look factory. May be a $1500 gun today, maybe.

My thinking was that we would drive up to Duluth to meet you guys. Maybe catch lunch or dinner. No way you need the stress of coming down to the metro on that trip.

A Darne is not a boxlock. It is a sliding breech.

My boxlock is a 28" 12 gauge Uggy that is my "traveler". It is the "Falcon" version, circa 1972, magnum proofed, hidden third fastener, and disc set strikers. I've just about got it where I want it, rid of the gold plating on the triggers, rid of the white line spacers, a touch of left cast, and a new sporting clays pad installed. Cole Haugh built me a set of strikers for it, and the tool to install them. He serviced the gun, rehardened all the bits internally, put a poly finish on the stock, recheckered it, and sealed the inside surfaces of the wood. The chokes were opened from about .036 and .041 (it isn't 1972 anymore) but, I might have a tube put in the left side-it is about cyl and skeet, right now. Not sure why a 6lb 7oz gun got magnum proof, but, it did. Somebody broke and repaired the toe of the stock at one point, but, it's been no problem, so far. Nice, open pistol grip and a slim beavertail.

The newer model 30s are similar to this gun, well, except this one is engraved, and has the 3" magnum improvements listed above. I still have way less than 1K into this gun, and I'm pretty sure if our canoe sinks, you will be more PO'ed about losing your model 12 than I would be about this one, as long as the beer cooler floats in, anyway.







Stay in touch-we'll see what happens.

Best,
Ted

Ted:

That "Uggie" looks to be a great value. An affordable "hand-made" double that fits well and shoots even better. I love utility in all things. A big part of something's beauty to me is how well it functions. If you had to, you could even use it as a waterfowler with those chokes. Lighter steel loads shouldn't bother it a bit. If I hadn't run across that pre-war 31 I found in 2013, that would be just the ticket for me up in Zippel Bay.

We'll have to see how this year unfolds. Lunch would be great if we can do it.

Lloyd,
Great value is what I can afford, I guess. I had the stock bent, but, it still would need, like, what, 4 more inches or so of LOP to fit you?

I'd shoot steel in it. I figure I haven't got enough years left to do serious damage to it.

We'll see you in July, maybe. Or, later in the fall, hopefully.

Best,
Ted