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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 568 Likes: 14
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 568 Likes: 14 |
I can add a little info to the brass "Shelhamer tie-down" story as I researched this very item for many years. I lived in Michigan and several friends and I collected his rifles. We always found these identical tie-downs on his rifles... with two exceptions. The first was rifles that were stamped D. Kilpatrick under the butt-plate and looked for all intensive purposes to be Shelhamers. These did not have the tie-down however were identical in lines (and workmanship) to Shelhamer. I had almost given up on understanding this when, by a stroke of luck, I came across a "D. Kilpatrick" living near Dowagiac Michigan. I was able to contact Dennis' daughter who told me the story. Dennis and Tom were very close personnel friends. Dennis was a local gunsmith who did very nice work and catered to the target/benchrest set. He did have some of his clients want him to build sporting or hunting rifles and he would do these in conjunction with Shelhamer who taught him inletting and shaping (I've taken two of these apart and they are beautifully inletted). From what I learned, these were done in Shelhamer's basement while the two worked together. Because Kilpatrick was a accuracy buff, he would begrudgingly make the concession to a tight barrel channel but not to a tie-down, so on his rifles they were to the best of my knowledge, never present. as a point of interest all the Kilpatrick rifles were checkered by Shelhamer. From what I gathered talking further with others still alive that knew Dennis (and Tom), he made something like a dozen rifles with Shelhamer designed stocks and all are stamped like Shelhamer did. These are lovely rifles and add something to a Shelhamer collection. Whenever you see what you are sure is a Shelhamer but doesn't have a tie-down you're probably looking at a Kilpatrick.
I mentioned two exceptions... until 3 years ago, I was sure that no Shelhamer went out that did not have his brass escutcheon present. On this very forum was a Shelhamer rifle, properly stamped with its number under the Niedner butt-plate and no tie-down. It was a quintessential Shelhamer with chin-strap, Schnabble fore-end and O'Dell pattern checkering (also the typical rich French walnut he used and I envy). I've looked at more than 50 Shelhamers and this photo came as a complete surprise! I guess this reinforces the old adage "never say never".
Thought you might find this interesting. Yes, very interesting, thank you. The story I had heard was that Shelhamer did the stock work for Kilpatrick but it sounds like you have the straight scoop on it. I have seen one Kilpatrick gun, but I do not recall if it had the escutcheon or not. John
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 625
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 625 |
Would it be accurate to call the "little brass washer" a counterbored and knurled brass escutcheon?
I've always assumed they are grooved or serrated on the OD rather than knurled, but, of course, never knocked one out to see.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 568 Likes: 14
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 568 Likes: 14 |
Would it be accurate to call the "little brass washer" a counterbored and knurled brass escutcheon?
I've always assumed they are grooved or serrated on the OD rather than knurled, but, of course, never knocked one out to see. I've never knocked on out either, but they do look to me like straight knurling, or lengthwise grooves around the outside diameter. Looking through some pictures and found a rifle without one. This is one of the Russel Smith rifles, and the screw is in an ivory escutcheon. There is a matching ivory grip cap that is otherwise the same as the other rifles. John
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,211 Likes: 224
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,211 Likes: 224 |
Terry, the little thingy you are interested in is a "drive in with threads" very similar to what Krieghoff has used on the K-32 and the K-80 forends for about fifty years now. It is a great gunsmithing item and can probably be bought from Krieghoff USA.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,211 Likes: 224
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,211 Likes: 224 |
I notice (forgive me) that Thomas S. attempted to perfect the fleur de lis and failed. A true artist would have stuck to the point and ribbon patterns.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,405 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,405 Likes: 16 |
Thanks John & eddie. I'm flying blind on identifying Shelhamer work and now have some particulars to look for. If I find one, I'll knock out the little brass washer and tape a pic. Best, Steven
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 141
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 141 |
Great post! Great guns and great info!
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,405 Likes: 16
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,405 Likes: 16 |
John, Is that one of those "little brass washers"?
Last edited by SDH-MT; 03/16/15 05:36 PM. Reason: edit
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 542 Likes: 29
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 542 Likes: 29 |
This one is marked AO Neidner on the barrel but the barrel band attaches to a sling swivel base. Somebody put a pad on it so we will never know if it was marked under the butt plate. Shelhamer?
Last edited by RyanF; 03/16/15 07:36 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 568 Likes: 14
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 568 Likes: 14 |
Yep, that looks like it.
I never really thought much of Krag sporters, but after looking over Marks collection at the Amoskeag auction I have a new appreciation for them. The are some mighty fine looking Krags on that sale.
John
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