doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com When did Fox change early checkering and also when

When did A.H. Fox change from the early flat top checkering on the A grade, to a pointed checkering? Also, when did they start using different barrel weights? My A grade does not have a barrel weight stamped in front of the flats, which makes me want to believe that the early guns were made with a more uniform standard.

Here's my problem - I have a relatively early A Grade extractor gun with a 2300 serial number. The original stock has flat checkering. At some point the forend must have been damaged because the checkering has been putty'd over, so much that I thought the forend was a replacement until I removed the iron the other day. Upon close inspection I can now see faint remnants of the original flat checkering in places. Most available replacements I've seen have pointed checkering, which will stand out like a purple mohawk.

I think I have two options - have the checkering recut on the original, or find a replacement with the same style of checkering. I would prefer the later because a replacement forend will already have natural handling marks. If I have the checkering cut on the forend then I will also need to have the checkering cut on the stock. I'm not looking to put that kind of money in to this gun.

Purpose of the question is to determine the likelihood of another ORIGINAL wooden forend with the same flat checkering fitting to my gun. My thoughts were that any wooden forend from one of the early guns with flat top checkering should come close to fitting - mostly because I don't see where different barrel weights were used so therefore the barrel channels in the wood should be fairly similar. Correct, or no?

My thoughts were that if the different barrel weights used by Fox had not yet been introduced during this time period, AND if the later checkering style could be associated with a time line next to the period when the barrel weights were introduced then I should be able to know pretty well by serial number if an early style forend is going to work without having to ship the entire gun.

Barrel weight stamps usually got struck off, especially in the lighter weights. Don't know about the checkering query...Geo

Fox always used different barrel weights.

The weight number (1-4) was stamped on the tube when in its raw state.

It's very common for the weight number to be struck off during finishing as Mr. Newbern has stated.

The earlier guns exhibited a much higher level of filing and polishing (even in the unseen areas) than the later guns, which is one reason that the later guns more often retain their weight markings.

As far as I am aware all pre-Utica As had flat-topped checkering.

The early guns had much more (and more careful) hand finishing than the later guns. This also applies to the inletting.

The odds of finding another forend that will fit both your iron and the barrel contours (without rework) are pretty slim.

Perhaps the best thing to do is nothing and let the gun stand on its own merits.

Thank you, gentlemen. That's very interesting regarding barrel weight and finish.

Is there a resource, such as Mcintosh's book, to identify what weight barrels a particular forend was intended? I mean by measurements. Or was it not even close to being similar as they rolled out?

How would I identify the barrel weight without the stamp? A weight range?

The McIntosh book sets out the weight range in conjunction with the numbers. Maybe someone has their copy of the book handy...Geo

Such a weight chart would no more predict fore end size than ladies weight would predict bra size. Fore ends were fit from a rough inlet blank to fit the guns final barrel shape after striking. You might find a used one and get it to fit with a little alteration. But it is all luck and chance given that you need to find a old one close to your needs.

The barrel weight numbers do not necessarily correspond to the weight of the finished barrels, only the weight of the raw tubes.

Imagine this, a customer orders a gun and orders it to be a specific weight, since the barrels make up a good portion of that weight, the factory man would pull the appropriate weight tubes from stock for the intended finished weight of the barrels.

I doubt that any two barrel sets of the same number would weigh exactly the same.

Exactly right.

Here is the 12 Gauge barrel weight chart. Remember these weights are as unfinished barrels.

On the early A.H. Fox Gun Co. guns, especially that first block of serial numbers 1 to 3000 that we speculate were made at Wayne & Bristol Streets, we normally see the line on the bottom of the tubes ahead of the barrel flats -FLUID-STEEL-KRUPP-ESSEN- but on some guns we see a second line -HEAVY-WEIGHT-BARREL-. At the winter Las Vegas show I examined a gun, serial number 7144, an early gun from North 18th Street and Windrim Avenue, that had the line -LIGHT-WEIGHT-BARREL-.