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5 members (docbill, Hammergun, 3 invisible),
391
guests, and
4
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
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Forums10
Topics38,931
Posts550,843
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Most Online1,344 Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 372 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 372 Likes: 6 |
A friend of mine owned a wonderful 28 gauge Arietta for a short time. He bought it used and I believe it was originally built for Argentina. 30" barrels, double triggers, slim semi-beavertail forend and relaxed round knob grip. It weighed 7 lb even and was absolutely wonderful for targets and doves. The frame was significantly wider than one of their 20 gauge game guns that went 6 lb. I was cash poor when he traded it away. I know where it is and would love to own it. Maybe someday. Regards, Jeff
"We are men of action. Lies do not become us." Wesley
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 500 Likes: 10
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 500 Likes: 10 |
You, sir, have a good eye. There were (at least) seven people associated with the name Beristain involved in the gun trade during the period early 1700s - late 1900s and I have yet to unravel what connections may have existed between them. By the early 1900s we seem to be down to just two Beristains; "Beristain y Cia" and "Beristain, SA". The two guns linked above are Beristain, SA. Beristain, SA appears to have been only a retailer and not a gun maker. The gun in GB auction # 473311576 was made by Industrias Ilja (maker mark LI) and has slightly more hours of skilled hand labor in its production than the other gun. The other gun, GB auction # 473994954, was made by Armas Parkemy (maker mark A. P. M.). The LI is an extractor gun; the APM an ejector gun. To put these guns into the perspective of today’s market, both have more skilled hand labor in them than does a current production AyA No. 2, and if produced today would sell at a higher price point Than a No. 2. At a thousand dollars, each of these guns is a good value.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,243 Likes: 181
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,243 Likes: 181 |
"To put these guns into the perspective of today’s market, both have more skilled hand labor in them than does a current production AyA No. 2, and if produced today would sell at a higher price point Than a No. 2."
Really???? Maybe in fantasyland!
Gregory J. Westberg MSG, USA Ret
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
"Beristain, SA appears to have been only a retailer and not a gun maker. The gun in GB auction # 473311576 was made by Industrias Ilja (maker mark LI) and has slightly more hours of skilled hand labor in its production than the other gun. The other gun, GB auction # 473994954, was made by Armas Parkemy (maker mark A. P. M.). The LI is an extractor gun; the APM an ejector gun."
Interesting stuff Kyrie gives us more!!!
A sweet handling, hand built sidelock for $1,000.00. Nothing being offered on the market today can compete with that.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,174
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,174 |
they are good values, yes.... but just because they have more hand labor in them, doesn't mean they are higher quality. Sorry but they dont come close to an AYA #2
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 500 Likes: 10
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 500 Likes: 10 |
they are good values, yes.... but just because they have more hand labor in them, doesn't mean they are higher quality. Sorry but they dont come close to an AYA #2 I suspected this would stir up Adam and Greg, as they are the quintessential of the “buy the name, not the gun” buyers. They find my views, well, let’s just say “exciting.” “Quality”, in my usage, is a shorthand term used to describe the relative amounts of skilled hand labor that went into the production of two or more guns. If I remark that gun A is a higher quality gun that gun B, I’m opining that gun A was more expensive to produce than gun B, and would have sold at a higher price point due to production costs. I’m using the word quality as a term to describe the single largest quantifiable factor that determines the relative costs to produce two or more guns, and the relative price points of the guns as determined by cost of production. The LI and APM are higher quality guns than the AyA No.2, as the AyA no. 2 is produced today. The AyA No. 1, OTOH, beats both the LI and APM hands down.
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 66
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 66 |
I’m getting the sense that you are new to Spanish shotguns, and are looking to make a first purchase. If that’s the case my best advice, offered FWIW, is:
1) Ignore the names on the guns and just look at the gun – and then buy the gun that best meets your needs, regardless of who made it. You’ll pay less for the same gun. 2) Buy a used gun rather than a new gun, especially a gun made roughly during the period 1945 to 1975. That was the period that skilled hand labor was at its cheapest, and more of that skilled hand labor went into guns then than now does into guns at any similar price point. You’ll get more gun for your money. You sir are exactly right concerning my position at this time. The discussions here have been very helpful, and served to reinforce my interest. I definitely am aiming for a used Spanish gun, medium weight. I would like to use it for both sporting clays and field. I still have a long way to go however in being able to descern btwn mediocre and well made guns without having in my hands. Unfortunately that is also the biggest stumbling block for me, because my home area does not have many offerings of anykind of SXS I could see and handle. I am left relying mostly on the internet for my searching. At least I have a skilled and reliable gunsmith who was trained and certified by the English that I can send anything I might buy for proper inspection and evaluation.
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