doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Forehand Arms Question..

Does anyone know what design was used on the buttplate of Forehand Arms's sideplated boxlock doubles? I've seen one with the "Squirrel & Nut" design normally associated with Hopkins & Allen. I understand that Hopkins & Allen bought Forehand, and continued to produce this model under their own name. The real question is if the "Squirrel & Nut" was a Forehand logo that Hopkins & Allen adopted as well?

I've seen a picture of a Grade 3 Forehand with a Turkey on the buttplate. Was this what Forehand used?

This Forehand boxlock gun has the squirrel& nut buttplate in photo #12 Ken.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=474465820

Most of the Hopkins & Allen doubles I've seen have the style of buttplate shown on this beauty in photo #8. I'll bet the black paint job on the barrels and action of this gun was less labor intensive than your rust bluing. Rustoleum bluing vs. rust bluing might make an interesting topic here now that ed is back.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=473033162

I bought a nice example of this style Hopkins & Allen buttplate at a gun show last Saturday. I've never seen the squirrel & nut buttplate on an H & A double, but I believe I have seen them on Hopkins & Allen single shot dropping block .22's.

A Forehand and Wadsworth single barrel that I own has a plain steel buttplate

Thanks.

I picked up a Forehand Arms single barrel ejector gun last weekend. I mainly picked it up because of the twist barrel. That and it was very cheap at the auction. The only fault it has is that the toe of the stock and the buttplate are chipped. It has the "Squirrel & Nut" buttplate. These are often derided as cheap "farmers guns", but once restored and recase-colored I think it'll look nice. They were available with fluid steel as well, so mine's probably the first upgrade available, to a twist barrel. The gun is fairly light, it'll be interesting to see what the reactions are when I pull it out at the trap range, compared to other's Berettas, Perazzis, and Model 12s.

I've not seen a Forehand Arms Co. double with side plates. I've seen the Hopkins & Allen with side plates --



which seems to have evolved to an Iver Johnson --

Thanks.

I seem to recall seeing one, but I certainly may be wrong. Even with the sideplates, am I correct to think that the H&A gun is in fact built on the Forehand-patented action?

Here's mine, a Rev-o-Noc sold by HS&B:



Regards
Ken

Ken,
I think the H&A (single screw) Boxlocks were on the Forehand design. I don't believe the sideplated boxlocks were. I am more inclined to give credit to W.H. Davenport but have not made a solid connection other than he was H&A's superintendent during those years.

Back to the buttplates:
All my sideplated H&A guns have a plain buttplate with horizontal lines between the screws.
The H&A boxlocks all have the sunburst H&A plate.

John

Same with my sideplated gun, just the simple horizontal-lined one. My Forehand single-barrel gun has the "Squirrel & Nut" buttplate.

This is one of those topics that the internet may very well be wrong about, as there are plenty of opinions out there that the "better" (sideplated boxlock?) H&A doubles were the Forehand design.

Ken

Ken,

Do you have one of the Iver Johnson sideplated guns? Or the 210 model H&A that was marketed in 1914 just before they closed? I just posted pics of a Davenport sideplated gun that looks very similar to both , but is different mechanically from the H&A.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=398670#Post398670

John

OK John,

I found one of the things I'd seen before, relating the guns to Davenport. First, info from a post on SGW, from "Bob S"

"Not aware of any connection between H&A and I.J. But from The Standard Catalog of Firearms, 2009:

"DAVENPORT FIREARMS CO.
Providence, Rhode Island
Norwich, Connecticut
DOUBLE-BARREL SHOTGUNS
Text and prices by Nick Niles
William Hastings Davenport�s company also made and marked double-barrel, visible hammer guns in Providence, R.I. on Orange St., 1880-1882 and in Norwich, Conn. ca. 1890-1909. All are monbloc designs of which there were four models. The 1st model made at Providence, ca. 1881, had hammers rising out of the boxlock frame. The 2nd model, made in Norwich, Conn. about 1898, is a typical boxlock. The 3rd model made in Norwich, Conn., ca. 1909, has small sidelocks set in larger boxlock frames. Its barrels have unnotched extensions and notched underlugs. The 4th model, also from Norwich, possibly made after the 1901 takeover by Hopkins & Allen, also has sidelocks set in boxlock frames but the barrels have half moon lugs and notched barrel extensions. Few Davenport doubles are seen although single barrel guns are often found."

So H&A was at least familiar with 'monbloc' designs and also with the half-moon lugs. Seems H&A is the most likely mfg."

Next, the relevant text and Iver Johnson patents posted by Researcher:

"Looking at the two patents for the Iver Johnson gun, it appears that the Hopkins & Allen gun is built on the first one, Patent No. 1,131,984 granted March 16, 1915", --

http://www.google.com/patents/US1131984 ... 84&f=false"

Interesting that it is an Iver Johnson patent, yet H&A built the gun. With a patent date of march 16, 1915 it means this gun was in production for only a limited time, as H&A went under shortly afterwards when the Germans overran Belgium and they lost their Mauser contract.

So, Rather than describing them as W.H. Davenport guns, especially since they're the "4th Model" wouldn't the Iver Johnson reference would be more appropriate?

Here's the SGW thread, including the reference to Torkelson at the end.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=350443&start=20

Regards
Ken