Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
Kyrie,
If you walked into Greener's prior to the turn of the last century, and asked what his top model was, it was a boxlock. Some years later, that particular model of boxlock was gone, and the top model was a sidelock. He would, at that later time, build you a straight A&D boxlock, that cost less money than either the sidelock, or the Facile Princeps boxlock.
What I am asking is, was that ever the case in Spain? Was there a company that had, as it's most expensive model, a boxlock over the same companys sidelock?


I don’t know that the question can be answered as asked. Spanish gun makers didn’t produce just a single box lock and a single side lock. They produced (and still produce) a range of side lock guns. Back in the day when the makers all produced box lock guns too, they produced a range of box locks.

In those cases when a maker made a box lock and a side lock version of the same gun, the side lock always had a higher cost to make and consequently a higher price point at sale. That was just a function of the side lock having more space that had to be engraved.

If we want to get into an apples and oranges comparison, it was not unusual for a maker’s most ornate box lock to cost more to produce – and sell at a higher price – than the maker’s most basic side lock. And his most ornate side lock was always more expensive than his most basic box lock.

I know very little about the English gun trade and its business models, but based on the sense of how it worked I’m getting from your questions, I’d have to say the Spanish makers went about things very differently.

If you asked a Spanish gun maker what his “top model” was he would not know what you meant. He might open a catalog and point to the model that sells the most guns in a year, or to the model with the top price point, or just ask you “top model for what?” Spanish shotguns are purpose built, and the "top model" for live pigeon would be different from the "top model" for driven birds, which would be different from the "top model" for fur and feather hunting.

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

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Oh, the #2 you linked to has drop points in the stock-they are those stylish teardrop shaped carvings to the wood behind the lock plate. Good, English boxlocks from the era I'm alluding to do as well.

Ah! That’s what you meant. Drop points I know, it was your reference to “dropping points” that lost me. The Spanish gun makers view drop points as an affectation almost as bad as gold plated lock parts. They will happily put drop points to a stocks if that’s what a customer wants, but they aren’t happy with it or impressed by that customer.

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

Church windows refer to checkering that is in the area where the wood meets the back of the action on a boxlock.

Ah, so that what those things are called.

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

Very high grade American boxlocks will be seen with this treatment on occasion (think higher grade Parkers and Foxes) as will best work English boxlocks. I think it looks best with a sculpted action back. A very well fitted sculpted action back, by the way.

Again, the Spanish view diverges. It’s rare to find “Church windows” on a Spanish box lock; they are thought to be decidedly lower class. I think the only Spanish box locks I’ve seen with church windows were some inexpensive Zabala Hermanos guns brought into the States just before Zabala closed, and an Armas Erbi hardware store gun made back in the 1960s.

Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

I've never seen a Spanish boxlock with the pins installed for intercepting sears, but, the English did that on their best boxlocks.

I’m not a box lock person and cannot comment from my own knowledge. That said, the guys I know who are Spanish box lock mad tell me secondary sears are more common than not on their box locks.

Best,