doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Was Ithaca the best ?

The AH Fox gun is simply the most graceful vintage American sxs.
They're the guns to have, no doubt!

First let me say that, although I'm first a Lefever fan, I love all the old American doubles and would be happy to own a nice Ithaca. No one has mentioned what I once heard was a potential Ithaca "negative," perhaps because it isn't true. You guys will be able to clear it up. I've been under the impression that at least some pre-NID Ithacas are prone to frame-cracking. True? TT

I just read an ad for a Grade 7 Single Trigger Ithaca, 12g, 32" double.

Asking price? $250.00

Sadly I wasn't around in 1937 to buy an heirloom for the family. I wonder why my grandfather didn't buy if for us?

Marksman: Sorta like this gun for $14,000?
http://www.williamlarkinmoore.com/product_details.asp?id=1338

TT:

It is indeed true that some Flues Models, perhaps 200-300 or so, exhibited frame cracking.

This has been attributed to improper heat treatment, too thin action walls on SOME guns, and the post WWI "new" heavier American loads. I have been researching this issue for a while - I have a cracked Fluzie frame on my desk as I type this.

The bottom line is likely a combination of all three of the above issues, Ithaca found the frame cracking embarassing to say the least, and replaced the Flues Model with the immensely strong and robust NID ( New Ithaca Double ) model in 1926.

Regards

GKT

From time to time I'll be hanging around a group of guys, talking about girls, and without fail one will pipe up with the old "I can't stand all these skinny girls! I like a woman with curves!"

Upon further disucssion it will come to surface that he considers the likes of Jennifer Aniston or Denise Richards 'skinny', and 'curves' is really code for fat, i.e. Roseanne Barr or Rosie O'Donnel. It is usually at this point that the rest of us have a good laugh, shake our heads, and distance ourselves a little from this chap.

So for you guys who think a Parker somehow is lacking in what makes a shotgun a shotgun, note that I have just slid my computer a little further away.....

I was never a big fan of the Ithaca doubles but I certainly wish that I had the one my grandfather owned that he lent to someone and never got back. My friend has his grandfathers and I always thought it looked kind of blocky or slab sided. A frame design that is simple with not alot of hand work and lends itself to being easily machine made. I bought an NID in 10ga that someone opened the chambers up to Magnum lenght. That was before I learned that the Magnums were built after Serial number 500,000. I load light 1 5/8 once loads in this gun so that I can use it. I was very shocked at how thin the sides of this frame are. No wonder that the stock has problems with cracking in that area. There is no shoulder on the frame to transmit recoil to the wood. Another problem with this gun is it tended to try to open when fired. I fixed this problem by skeletenizing the long heavy screw on the side of the top lever shaft. Why is that screw so long anyway? In recoil it acts like an inertia block creating a torque on the top lever shaft. I suspect that if I keep shooting it that the frame will crack also. I bought a NID 4E in 28 GA that was finished by Angelo Bescci. I suspect that the actions came from Ithaca classic doubles when they went out of buisiness. I like this gun alot. It has some nice features that I like. Double triggers,pistol grip,beavertail forend,choked mod&mod on 28" tubes with a nice piece of crotch American walnut. It was engraved by an Italian in classic 4E style but would put the engraving on any original 4E to shame. I assume that these guns were put together by apprentices for practice because it has had a number of problems. One of wich was the gun trying to open when fired. Yes,even 28 Ga recoil can do this. I skeletinized the screw in this one also and needle filed the opening in the rib extension so that the locking bolt fit better and that curred it. I've managed to get rid of most of the little problems on this gun and I like it alot. These problems were mostly fit problems but the opening in recoil is a design problem. The top lever spring seems strong enough in both the 10& 28. I think the nicest looking American boxlocks are the Parker and Fox with their nice sculpting of their frames. For side locks I think the Lefever and Baker are nicest with the regular frame LC a close second. One has to wonder if Ithaca had a good design why did they need to change it 3 or 4 times. I understand that the Purdey hasn't changed since the 1880's. The Parker is overly complicated but the craftsmanship and quality of those parts makes up for it's design and when it all comes together it gives reliability.

Keep on overlooking the Remington 1894s and 1900s so I can keep buying them!