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Ha Ha Ha .

Yeah - but those videos are positioning the tutorials as the proper way to repair those shotguns.


OWD

I just dropped off an old Gladiator [Hunter Arms] SxS with Dennis Potter to have the action tightened up along with a couple other repairs...His answer was to weld the lug and machine down to proper fit....he didn't even suggest the shim or hammer method of tightening the action....didn't think he would.... not that I wouldn't do the shim method at home....

There are many ways of adjusting a gun to bring it back on face and welding is just one method that as evolved due to progress in welding. But what method do you think they used let�s say in the 1850�s when drop down barrel guns where in there infansy? Well there were no fancy electric welders then but guns were still brought back on face but the difference is that to put a few thousands of an inch of weld or use the even newer method of metal spraying with a little practice results can be extremely good, Now to do the same thing by hand with just files is a whole new ball game the results will be the same but the path to doing it requires true manual skill and the ability to file flat and true. Now I have put guns back on face using the traditional craft method as an exercise and it eats time like it is going out of fashion and therefore the cost is in a league of its own. It does have one advantage over welding that is once the basic work has been done and the gun comes off face again it is just a simple matter to correct the situation.
So over time it has been �you pays your money and takes your choice� either the older tried and trusted methods or the latest and possibly cheaper method. THE CHOICE IS YOURS!!!!!! And only time will tell which methods are the best so let�s not knock it if we have not tried it folks.

I think at one point in time I have used every common method of tightening an action. I might be one of the few out there who still sees replacing the hinge pin as a good option on guns where the pin is screwed into the frame. Lots of work but the best method in my mind for the old guns of this design. It pays to keep an open mind. I have tried Jack's method of tightening a fore end. It works but it is not to my liking. A bit too brutal for me. As others have pointed out, technology has come an awful long way. I still use many traditional, hand methods for gun repair but I also embrace the new technology. Why wouldn't I?

New joint pin is the is the preferred method for tightening and putting a gun back on face as far as I am concerned and do so when ever possible .When it is not other methods are used . Problem is that Gunmakers 100 years ago probably did not think that any one would be repairing guns of that age and would have assumed people would have bought new ones by then . I am sure that had you told them this they would have been delighted , then done something about it !

I would like to put another view point here about gun repairs and how attitudes have changed and I am making it from my experience as a Precision engineer not a gunsmith.
Now in my training which I must admit now was a long time ago, it was always impressed on me that if you undertake to perform a repair what you do must never leave the item in a worse condition than when you first started to repair it. I have always tried to keep to at least the spirit of this but as we all know things can go wrong, and hand on heart I have started things that have gone pear shaped and I wish I never started.
I have posted two photographs taken of put back on the face repairs to a couple of guns in my collection, I am assuming both repairs where undertaken in the eighteen hundreds. Both guns are Jones under leaver with Damascus barrels though this is really of no consequence to what I want to say.
In the first pair of photograph this type of repair back then was considered respectable and a normal every day working repair. But today by our standards we could judge it as incredibly poor standard of a big hammer repair.





In the second pair of photograph is a repair that we today would say was of a high standard.





If you let me I will assume that the guns owners was pleased with the result and paid for the repairs.
Now this is my personal view on the repairs taking in to account what I said at the beginning of this post.
The first gun with the half-moon punch marks on the hook has not been materially changed in any way other than aesthetically so the person who did the work did not leave the gun in a worse condition than he was given it.
The second guns repairs was far more complex and I must assume that the repair costs where far higher than the �punch job.� But what has it done for the gun, as far as I can see it has in fact left the gun in a far worse condition even though it put the gun back on face. Firstly the material the joint pin was manufactured from is as soft as butter that is not a crime in its self if you go to the trouble of case hardening it, but this had not been done.
Also in replacing the pin they omitted to have it engraved because I am sure the original pin was because the gun is an Adams though the guns action was made by Joseph brazier.
My point in all of this is to restore the guns in working condition today. The gun with the hook adjusted with the punch would need the hook built up by whatever method and putting back on face.
The second gun on the other hand will need a replacement joint pin manufacturing because the pin that is in the gun at the moment has also been fitted below the action surface as well as being soft, and of course engraving to suit the rest of the gun and putting back on face.

Damascus;
The question is are either of those guns still tight????

OK here are a couple of points .
When the repair was done did any one complain or was the fact that no one bothered as long as it worked ?
How much ? Can you do it cheaper. Or not bothered what it looks like .etc.etc.
These are comments still heard to day when people are told how much work will cost . Going back in time there were as there are now many "local blokes" who were not trained gunsmiths who did some odd jobs , in the example of the unengraved joint pin there may not have been an engraver within 100 miles who could or would have done the work and the additional cost of doing work on an old gun would not be worth the effort to the customer .
These days we tend to look at things from a different prospective . That old motor bike in Grandads shed for example that we rode around a field when we were kids and never though anything of crashing could now be worth a lot of money and would be treated with respect . 410's left to rust as it was always belittled as only being a kids gun is now a very desirable object .
It is not always fair to criticise the ways things were done in the past .Its when they are done now that I object to .

The gun with the barrel hook with punch marks is tighter but on a scale of one to ten about 7. The other with a the replacement joint pin is about 5, neither gun is shootable and going to be kept that way for differing reasons both are black powder and one is a pin fire so if it was made shootable it would have to be put on my shotgun certificate due to UK law, the other is an obsolete calibre. So wall hangers they will stay for their foreseeable future!!!
I was just trying to point out that each repair was acceptable in their own way at their point in time but looking at them at our point in time the least done is the soonest mended because of the high cost of labour now.
And the guidance given to me during my apprenticeship still holds true today �don�t let your attempts at a repair leave what you have repaired much the poorer.�
Also we can only speculate over the cost of each repair or weather the customer was happy with the results.