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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,091 Likes: 486
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,091 Likes: 486 |
Ken, if you are worried about scratching barrels, etc., I don't see how that is avoidable using fiber wads. You'll need htl/steel shot wads designed to keep the shot off the barrel's insides. I load tungsten for turkeys and I use the htl wads from BP and a mylar wrap. Steel or htl shoots tighter than the dickens without buffer. Don't add buffer unless the recipe has been tested for pressure in your load of choice. I'm sure you know this, but you are entering a new ballgame if you haven't loaded htl or steel and there is no lateral transfer between lead recipes and htl/steel.
From what I've read, Nice Shot is the exception to adopting lead recipes. Gil
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,993 Likes: 302
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,993 Likes: 302 |
GLS Michigan-Out-Of-Doors had an episode last night that made me think of you.
Ken61- I started loading steel w/ Blue dot, then migrated to Steel when it came out. I hand measure everything.
In a 7/8oz Steel load at 1300fps, you should get very low pressures. Worth sending in a test sample. The wad will have room for a wrap, and felt spacers.
I have never used a buffered load. Recovered wads will have pellets embedded in them ocassionally, and will be deeply dimpled.
I've seen much small steel shot in fluid steel barrels w/o incident.
It takes some getting used to because the shock effect is not there, even when the bird is centered. They'll be perforated though.
Out there doing it best I can.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,091 Likes: 486
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,091 Likes: 486 |
CZ, as you know, the damage to tighter chokes with steel (and even lead) occurs when incompressible large shot, "bridges" and rings (or worse) the restricted area. I have shot small htl for a while and not noted any scratches, etc., after taking the precautions of wrap/htl wads. That doesn't mean it won't happen, but so far, so good. Good to know that mylar alone offers sufficient protection of your guns. The advice often given if one is concerned about potential scratches in a gun's barrel, then don't shoot anything but lead. Gil
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
Hmmmm.
As pertaining to pattern-welded barrels and roll crimped shells with fiber wads. How about a Pyrodex load, (hopefully ensuring lower pressures) 7/8 oz of #7 steel, buffered for compressibility, encased within a Mylar sleeve to avoid scratches?
I'm aware of the issues of cleaning after Pyrodex, but I'm only talking about a few outing a year, shooting around 100 or fewer total shells.
With the same load, how about a Spreader insert?
Last edited by Ken61; 05/22/15 09:56 AM.
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,993 Likes: 302
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,993 Likes: 302 |
No No No
Don't mis understand me.
Alliant shows a high speed steel load made with their STEEL powder at 8400 psi. Bring down the speed, bring down recoil and chamber pressure. That's why I suggested sending out for a test load.
I line the heavy plastic wads with the mylar sheets, comes out like confetti. The heavy plastic wads do all the protecting in my view. I believe the mylar keeps pellets from slipping through the slits on set back. The felt spacers take up room in the wad for a nice sealable (clear nail polish) crimp. I seal the primers too.
I've shot Geese up close with a high speed steel load, and don't recommend it for that. Early Teal, Snipe, and rails. Perhaps a gallinule or two.
I load several boxes every year, but I shoot them in fluid steel barrels.
Out there doing it best I can.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,788 Likes: 767
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,788 Likes: 767 |
Ken, You need something like this: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=483981074I've been saying for years we were all eventually going to be in the boat you find yourself in today. The older I get, the less it becomes about what I use to shoot, and more about being out there with friends and my son. Save the damascus for the times you can use it as was intended. The Nitros have plenty of life left in them for what you will do with it. There are other designs, Trojans, Sterlingworth's, Western Arms, and whatnot, pick one that is well used and cheap. Open the chokes if they are tighter than modified, and don't think twice about what brand or type of steel you feed it. Life is too short to worry about damaging a damascus barrel gun in order to meet some DNR perfunctory with a bad comb over idea's about how you should spend your leisure time. Best, Ted
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
Well,
How about using the same set-up I use with my low-pressure, #6 lead Smokeless loads from the MEC, which run about 6500 psi at 1100fps? substituting #7 steel and including felt spacers and the Mylar wrap? Using the current shot bushing? We're talking fairly close-range shots here.
I'm not very well versed about MEC reloading, my friend does it for me.
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
Ken, You need something like this: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=483981074I've been saying for years we were all eventually going to be in the boat you find yourself in today. The older I get, the less it becomes about what I use to shoot, and more about being out there with friends and my son. Save the damascus for the times you can use it as was intended. The Nitros have plenty of life left in them for what you will do with it. There are other designs, Trojans, Sterlingworth's, Western Arms, and whatnot, pick one that is well used and cheap. Open the chokes if they are tighter than modified, and don't think twice about what brand or type of steel you feed it. Life is too short to worry about damaging a damascus barrel gun in order to meet some DNR perfunctory with a bad comb over idea's about how you should spend your leisure time. Best, Ted Yeah Ted,, Just what I need. How about sending me the rest of yours?  But seriously, this topic is interesting to me, finding a steel load light and appropriate for use on small birds in pattern-welded guns. It may not happen, but it's interesting. Ken
Last edited by Ken61; 05/22/15 10:34 AM.
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 389 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 389 Likes: 4 |
The only shot you can use (other than lead) that will cause no damage to your barrels, when using only card wads, is bismuth. Every other no-tox out there contains tungsten (other than steel of course). No matter how "soft" the manufacturer claims the shot is, they contain powder tungsten which will be abrasive to all barrels if not protected by thick shot cups.
There is a big difference between how soft a pellet is, i.e. the degree it can be crushed, and it's abrasive qualities. That is a point the various tungsten shot makers leave out of their ads.
If you want to continue to load with the same wads, your only alternative is bismuth. However, if you want to keep costs down, you will have to start using/reloading light loads of steel shot, using new wads, powders..etc.
“I left long before daylight, alone but not lonely.”~Gordon Macquarrie
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,788 Likes: 767
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,788 Likes: 767 |
Ken,
It is a 16. If you are cornered into using steel, use a 12. Or a 10. You need all you can get.
Best,
Ted
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